Image Count


bforbes

Link Posted 24/06/2018 - 09:57
Yesterday was a first for me, shooting a parade with the intention of recording all of the people involved, and it brought up a query

I was using a K-3ll with 2 x Sandisk Extreme Pro 32GB cards installed. The cards, when formatted in the camera, each showed a possible 598 shots available. In the event I only used one card and it still showed 187 shots available at the end of the day, so I'm thinking 411 shots taken.

When the images were loaded on to the computer it showed 699 images. I did delete a couple of images in the camera but not 288.

I'm sure there must be an explanation but I don't know what it is?
Barrie
Too Old To Die Young
.
Pentax K1 K5-IIS K-01 K20D A50/2 A50/1.7 DA10-17 DA18-250 DA18-135 DA18-55 DA300 DA40 DA50-135 DA50-200 DA55-300 DA70 F35-70 DFA150-450 FA20-35 FA100 FA135 FA35 FA28 FA43 FA50 FA77 K55/1.8 M135/3.5 M200/4 M28/3.5 M28/2.8 M40/2.8 Q 01 02 MX-1 I-10 Sigma 15 24 105 180 8-16 10-20 17-35 17-50/2.8 24-70 400/5.6MF Tamron 70-200/2.8 17/3.5MF 24/2.5MF 28/2.5MF 90/2.5MF


http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/artists/barrieforbes

johnriley

Link Posted 24/06/2018 - 10:51
If you were shooting JPEG images then the number on a card is indicated as an average expectation. However, the actual space taken up depends on the amount of detail in each image. There will be much bigger files if a series of detailed landscapes is taken, rather than say a series of simpler shots with large, even expanses of blue sky.

Perhaps if you look at the typical file sizes of some images it will help with an explanation.
Best regards, John

Algernon

Link Posted 24/06/2018 - 11:20
I'm not sure what your problem is, but most things that write to cards also store temporary files and must therefore keep some space in reserve. Even hard disks do that.



-
Half Man... Half Pentax ... Half Cucumber

Pentax K-1 + K-5 and some other stuff

Algi

bforbes

Link Posted 24/06/2018 - 11:27
johnriley wrote:
If you were shooting JPEG images then the number on a card is indicated as an average expectation.

I should have said the camera was set for RAW DNG. I've checked the file size which ranges from 27.3MB to 35.5MB. I'd have thought they would all be the same. Thinking the senor should always capture the same amount of information, as it's not aware of the type of information it's receiving.
Barrie
Too Old To Die Young
.
Pentax K1 K5-IIS K-01 K20D A50/2 A50/1.7 DA10-17 DA18-250 DA18-135 DA18-55 DA300 DA40 DA50-135 DA50-200 DA55-300 DA70 F35-70 DFA150-450 FA20-35 FA100 FA135 FA35 FA28 FA43 FA50 FA77 K55/1.8 M135/3.5 M200/4 M28/3.5 M28/2.8 M40/2.8 Q 01 02 MX-1 I-10 Sigma 15 24 105 180 8-16 10-20 17-35 17-50/2.8 24-70 400/5.6MF Tamron 70-200/2.8 17/3.5MF 24/2.5MF 28/2.5MF 90/2.5MF


http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/artists/barrieforbes

richandfleur

Link Posted 24/06/2018 - 11:29
Given each image will vary in size depending on the content, the number remaining has to be an estimate based on average image size and space remaining.

bforbes

Link Posted 24/06/2018 - 11:34
Algernon wrote:
I'm not sure what your problem is, but most things that write to cards also store temporary files and must therefore keep some space in reserve. Even hard disks do that.



-

it's not a problem. but your suggestion is the opposite of what seems to be happening. I'm getting more files on the disk than the space indicated by the camera.
Barrie
Too Old To Die Young
.
Pentax K1 K5-IIS K-01 K20D A50/2 A50/1.7 DA10-17 DA18-250 DA18-135 DA18-55 DA300 DA40 DA50-135 DA50-200 DA55-300 DA70 F35-70 DFA150-450 FA20-35 FA100 FA135 FA35 FA28 FA43 FA50 FA77 K55/1.8 M135/3.5 M200/4 M28/3.5 M28/2.8 M40/2.8 Q 01 02 MX-1 I-10 Sigma 15 24 105 180 8-16 10-20 17-35 17-50/2.8 24-70 400/5.6MF Tamron 70-200/2.8 17/3.5MF 24/2.5MF 28/2.5MF 90/2.5MF


http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/artists/barrieforbes

pschlute

Link Posted 24/06/2018 - 11:37
bforbes wrote:
johnriley wrote:
If you were shooting JPEG images then the number on a card is indicated as an average expectation.

I should have said the camera was set for RAW DNG. I've checked the file size which ranges from 27.3MB to 35.5MB. I'd have thought they would all be the same. Thinking the senor should always capture the same amount of information, as it's not aware of the type of information it's receiving.

The file size can vary greatly depending on your scene. A large expanse of a single colour will result in a small file size. Mult coluors and multi toned images will be the opposite.

As John pointed out, the number of shots available that the camera displays is a conservative estimate and is not a reliable indicator of how many pictures you have taken (or indeed how many you can expect to take). It is a minimum estimate using an "average" file size.
Peter



My Flickr page
Last Edited by pschlute on 24/06/2018 - 11:39

bforbes

Link Posted 24/06/2018 - 11:44
richandfleur wrote:
Given each image will vary in size depending on the content, the number remaining has to be an estimate based on average image size and space remaining.

Is it a "Given". Also the estimation would seem to be way off, having taken 699 when the camera estimates 411
Barrie
Too Old To Die Young
.
Pentax K1 K5-IIS K-01 K20D A50/2 A50/1.7 DA10-17 DA18-250 DA18-135 DA18-55 DA300 DA40 DA50-135 DA50-200 DA55-300 DA70 F35-70 DFA150-450 FA20-35 FA100 FA135 FA35 FA28 FA43 FA50 FA77 K55/1.8 M135/3.5 M200/4 M28/3.5 M28/2.8 M40/2.8 Q 01 02 MX-1 I-10 Sigma 15 24 105 180 8-16 10-20 17-35 17-50/2.8 24-70 400/5.6MF Tamron 70-200/2.8 17/3.5MF 24/2.5MF 28/2.5MF 90/2.5MF


http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/artists/barrieforbes

richandfleur

Link Posted 24/06/2018 - 11:58
Sensible to pick a worst case scenario as a warning. Ie underestimate the available space left.

bforbes

Link Posted 24/06/2018 - 11:58
I can see the argument about file size varying in JPEG, when all the information gathered is processed and that thought not needed is discarded. But I can't see how it applies to a raw file, when I thought all the information is retained from sensors that don't know what the content is. Or are you saying the pixels talk to each other on the sensor eg. "your blue, I'm blue, I'll not bother recording"
Barrie
Too Old To Die Young
.
Pentax K1 K5-IIS K-01 K20D A50/2 A50/1.7 DA10-17 DA18-250 DA18-135 DA18-55 DA300 DA40 DA50-135 DA50-200 DA55-300 DA70 F35-70 DFA150-450 FA20-35 FA100 FA135 FA35 FA28 FA43 FA50 FA77 K55/1.8 M135/3.5 M200/4 M28/3.5 M28/2.8 M40/2.8 Q 01 02 MX-1 I-10 Sigma 15 24 105 180 8-16 10-20 17-35 17-50/2.8 24-70 400/5.6MF Tamron 70-200/2.8 17/3.5MF 24/2.5MF 28/2.5MF 90/2.5MF


http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/artists/barrieforbes

Algernon

Link Posted 24/06/2018 - 12:04
At 16.5mb Sandisk say you should get 1,440 shots on a card. So at 33mb it should be 720 shots.

https://www.sandisk.com/about/legal/hd


--
Half Man... Half Pentax ... Half Cucumber

Pentax K-1 + K-5 and some other stuff

Algi

Helpful

pschlute

Link Posted 24/06/2018 - 12:17
bforbes wrote:
I can see the argument about file size varying in JPEG, when all the information gathered is processed and that thought not needed is discarded. But I can't see how it applies to a raw file, when I thought all the information is retained from sensors that don't know what the content is. Or are you saying the pixels talk to each other on the sensor eg. "your blue, I'm blue, I'll not bother recording"

Go and test it. Makes sense to me that if the sensor only records 10 colours versus 100 the file size is smalller
Peter



My Flickr page

barkin

Link Posted 24/06/2018 - 12:22
bforbes wrote:
I can see the argument about file size varying in JPEG, when all the information gathered is processed and that thought not needed is discarded. But I can't see how it applies to a raw file, when I thought all the information is retained from sensors that don't know what the content is. Or are you saying the pixels talk to each other on the sensor eg. "your blue, I'm blue, I'll not bother recording"

RAW dng files do contain all of the info from the sensor, but in a lossless compressed format. Different scenes will compress to different degrees.

Helpful

bforbes

Link Posted 24/06/2018 - 12:36
barkin wrote:
RAW dng files do contain all of the info from the sensor, but in a lossless compressed format. Different scenes will compress to different degrees.

I can follow that logic and it makes sense of pschlute's test of DNG images.


28.7MB



30.9MB


Barrie
Too Old To Die Young
.
Pentax K1 K5-IIS K-01 K20D A50/2 A50/1.7 DA10-17 DA18-250 DA18-135 DA18-55 DA300 DA40 DA50-135 DA50-200 DA55-300 DA70 F35-70 DFA150-450 FA20-35 FA100 FA135 FA35 FA28 FA43 FA50 FA77 K55/1.8 M135/3.5 M200/4 M28/3.5 M28/2.8 M40/2.8 Q 01 02 MX-1 I-10 Sigma 15 24 105 180 8-16 10-20 17-35 17-50/2.8 24-70 400/5.6MF Tamron 70-200/2.8 17/3.5MF 24/2.5MF 28/2.5MF 90/2.5MF


http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/artists/barrieforbes

bforbes

Link Posted 24/06/2018 - 12:45
Algernon wrote:
At 16.5mb Sandisk say you should get 1,440 shots on a card. So at 33mb it should be 720 shots.
https://www.sandisk.com/about/legal/hd--

So the answer is the camera is underestimating the numbers.


Thank you all.
Barrie
Too Old To Die Young
.
Pentax K1 K5-IIS K-01 K20D A50/2 A50/1.7 DA10-17 DA18-250 DA18-135 DA18-55 DA300 DA40 DA50-135 DA50-200 DA55-300 DA70 F35-70 DFA150-450 FA20-35 FA100 FA135 FA35 FA28 FA43 FA50 FA77 K55/1.8 M135/3.5 M200/4 M28/3.5 M28/2.8 M40/2.8 Q 01 02 MX-1 I-10 Sigma 15 24 105 180 8-16 10-20 17-35 17-50/2.8 24-70 400/5.6MF Tamron 70-200/2.8 17/3.5MF 24/2.5MF 28/2.5MF 90/2.5MF


http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/artists/barrieforbes
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