ICC = it's coming clearer!

Ok, I've been reading and re-reading posts on this site, and several other tutorials on colour management (such as here and here), following on the advice gratefully received in my earlier post.


Looking for help to see if I understand the basic workflow for getting my images printed at my local pro lab, which has given me their ICC profile.

1. Camera: set default colour space as sRGB (although as I shoot in RAW all the time, this doesn't matter)

2. Computer: iMac, OS X, Tiger; Monitor: calibrated with huey Pro

3. Silkypix: do basic editing, develop to 8 bit Tiff, in sRGB.

4. Optional: do further editing in Photoshop Elements 6

5. Unlike Photoshop, neither Silkypix nor PSE6 allow me to save the image with the lab's ICC profile (or anything else other than sRGB or AdobeRGB), I would open the image saved in either Silkypix or PSE6 in Graphic Converter (see here; other options available for PCs). Having opened the image with this utility, I would simply do a "save as" with the selected colour profile being my local lab's (or at least that's what I'm guessing, not having downloaded this software yet).

6. Burn a CD or email the files to the lab, with the instruction to turn off any automatic enhancements, and to print the image with their embedded ICC profile.

7. Hope to God it works!

Ok, what am I missing, friends?

if it works stick with it...for now.
later you will find you can use adobe rgb through most of your workflow, while viewing on your huey profiled monitor, and set the printers profile at the last stage before burning your disc.
but let Matt explain that, as I'm a lazy typist, and half snapped right now!

Well, you've definitely got the right idea as to workflow. sRGB will do you just fine (though AdobeRGB will be better later once you've sussed everything out - PSE can do AdobeRGB )

The result depends entirely on what this app does

There are two options:
1) The app just reassigns the profile, leaving the colour "numbers" the same. You'll get waaaay off colours with this approach.

2) The app does a profile conversion (ie with an "intent") and recalculates all the colours numbers as well as tagging the image with the new profile.

To take a money analogy, option 1 is like just changing the sign from £ to $ - you'll get a result that says it's Dollars but you won't have the right figure! Option 2 does the actual currency conversion as well as the sign change.

Unfortunately I don't have a Mac - so I can't immediately tell you what you'll get back from the print!

Hope that helps!!
Matt

EDIT: Just Google'd and it looks like ColorSync can do the profile conversion for you
Color_Mgmt_inTiger.pdf

See page 11:
So looks like you Mac users are all sorted
Anyone got a Mac Book Pro + CS2 going cheap??
Matt

Helpful hint:
the macbook costs way less than the macbook pro.
It runs photoshop every bit as fast as the pro version.
you won't get fast frame rates on a video game like quake, on a macbook, but photoshop, don't rely on fast video cards to perform edits.

Quake?

What's Crysis like on a high spec Mac?

Thanks for the hint Don
When I've a chunk of spare cash, and after I've upgraded to the K20D and the DA* lenses then I'll have a look
But that's a useful tip all the same - thanks!
Matt

More clarity comes with the morning!

Thanks for the ColorSync Utility tip, Matt! The apple imaging document looks fantastic. I also discovered just this morning (by accident, I'll admit) that if you open an image in the Mac's super-program "Preview", under tools, it gives the option to "assign profile" including any installed by the user. So, now there are two options, and you've saved me the $40 of the other program. Thanks!!

A couple follow-up questions, please:

1. Don and Matt both say Adobe RGB. So, should I change the setting in-camera, and in Silkypix and in PSE, then? And do I understand that the advantage will not be perceptible to my eyes on the screen, but is a less compressed (?) color space, and so allows for an easier transition from my huey-generated profile to the lab's printer profile?

2. When I apply the profile of my lab in either Color Sync or Preview, there is a noticeable (not drastic) change in colour from that which I produced on the calibrated monitor. Is this normal? And if it's not something I need to fix, then how do I best account for that difference in the Silkypix and PSE stages of the workflow, so that what I see is what I'll get, both at "assigning profile" time and at printing??

And one more:
Is there any way for me to find this out, short of sending some prints for comparison?

Many, many thanks

you may need to do some reading up on "Soft Proofing" on apples website and in your help menu.:

Chris: the only mac a serious (and wealthy) gamer would look at:
link

Don,

I've seen the "soft proofing" option in the print preview screen, but if I understand correctly, isn't this just for proofing something I'm printing with one of my own printers? Is there a way to soft proof with an external printer via its ICC profile?

Soft proofing is a way to use the monitor to visualise how the print will come out on the target device

(Hence the "soft" - it's not a "hard" print out)

There will often be a shift in some areas when moving to another colour space. That's what the intent is all about - how you squeeze a quart into a pint-pot (so to speak). Try it with "Perceptual" and "Relative Colormetric" - they'll be slightly different.

When soft proofing you will read about a "Gamut Warning" - this shows where the colours will be clipped (as opposed to the luminance levels that you're used to seeing in Photoshop).

My suggestion - get the hang of everything in sRGB, and when you are completely comfortable, then switch to AdobeRGB. Give it a few weeks

Matt

So, I'm ready to send off a small batch of test photos to the lab, to see how it comes out. As I mentioned, the problem I'm running across now is that when I use Mac's ColorSync Utility to add the lab's ICC profile for output, the effects are quite different.

For example

Here's the image as converted from RAW by Silkypix, then minor editing and cropping in PSE:



And here it is with the ICC profile applied, using Relative Intent, which as the closest:



At least on my monitor, there's quite a difference in colour (especially the green background) and sharpness; the second image is generally more flat.

So ... how do I correct for this, and at what stage? For example, do I oversharpen in Silkypix, knowing that it'll be not sharp enough by the time it's compressed to lab-ready jpg? Or ....???

Would using AdobeRGB make any difference with this?

wait for the print and see if the print looks closer to image 1 or image 2, on your monitor.