I killed my K100d!...advise please.

Hi,

I updated the firmware on my K100d...until about halfway through when the batteries decided to loose contact...when I picked it up to check progress.

I am an idiot...yes...''never interupt power whilst updating firmware''.

Must have been a dirty contact or something, anyway, upshot was, I bought an *istDs for £130 with kit lens as I was going away the next day and needed a camera.

I like the *istDs a lot, cheifly because the batteries seem to last three times as long as the K100d.

Sent the K100d to Pentax Centre at Johnsons Photopia Ltd and they want £165 to fit a new main board and test.

Questions are...[as ebay tells me I can buy another K100d body for that much or less]

1. Would I be better off spending a little more for the next model up
2. Which is the next logical model?
3. If I pay £7 to get the K100d back unrepaired, is there a second hand market for dead K100Ds
4. Would the repair be worth the £165 due to a 'new' [probably refurbed] board, latest firmware [one hopes] and six month guarantee [probably only on the board though..]
5. Should I just stick with the *istDs?

My main reason for getting a second body is that as an instructor at the local ATC, the youngsters are always keen to take photos on my 'proper' camera, and I would have a spare to hand over whilst keeping one myself.

Any thoughts?

Thanks

Andy

I wouldn't pay £165 to have a K100D repaired just in principle!

For example, I managed to pick up a K-m and kit lens for £250 last month. Save the money and put it towards a K-m or even K-x if you can afford it.

Bob.

Much as I really like the 6MP cameras (and my kids now have my K100D), I think I'd struggle to spend that kind of money to have one repaired. Given you have the *istDS, I think I'd keep that and reflect on whether to get something else.

For me, there are a number of reasons which may make a newer camera worth considering, most obviously shake reduction (which probably explains the difference in battery life?). Increased MP comes a long way down the list unless you want to crop lots or print huge.

If you don't want to go for the much larger K10D/K20D bodies, I always thought the K200D was an unsung hero of the more recent cameras, if you can find someone willing to part with one. Very nicely specified, competent, well made, decent handling, compact and weather-sealed. I think it would feel like an upgrade from the K100D, and would be worth spending a bit more on than the repair cost of your existing camera.

Sorry this has happened........

1. Would I be better off spending a little more for the next model up

I dropped a GX20 and had enough money for a replacement but it stuck in my craw for 2nd hand when a brand new K-7 was £350 more, I sold a lens and saved and borrowed and waited.

2. Which is the next logical model?

What ever you can afford? K-X?


3. If I pay £7 to get the K100d back unrepaired, is there a second hand market for dead K100Ds

Probably as you have a mechanically sound K100d it just needs electronics from a duff K100d. What the value is only ebay will tell. I bet you get your £7 back.

4. Would the repair be worth the £165 due to a 'new' [probably refurbed] board, latest firmware [one hopes] and six month guarantee [probably only on the board though..]

Its the going rate to disassemble it, transplant the part, re-assemble, test and guarantee! As this is the best part of a K10d probably not worth it.

5. Should I just stick with the *istDs?

If you're happy yes, but start saving for the next upgrade. I bought a Coolpix 8700 as a stopgap and sold it for £50 more a few months later. It reminded me why I have a DSLR. Look at the IstDS as a stopgap.

Actually - just had a thought - would you be able to make a claim on your home insurance?

I never thought they would need to replace the whole motherboard if a firmware install fails since nothing is physically broken, there are some electronics expert here that can surely tell you more about it.

Maybe it might be helpful to contact Pentax from another country and see what they say. If you want I could write a letter to Pentax Benelux for information about it and how much they say it might cost.

Stefan,

If you have the time to do that for me it would be much appreciated. I have requested the camera returned not fixed, so if your reply is no different, I will list it on ebay and see what happens.

I spoke to an electronics engineer, he said *most* electronic stuff can be forced to power on and the firmware reinstalled over the failed copy. It's only data on an an eeprom after all!

I think this is their generic price for 'making it work again'
Also, if I leave it with them it will surely be fixed at cost and sold as a refurb, so I'm NOT doing that.

That was precisely my thought.

Will write Pentax here a letter and pretend to have the same problem and see what they advice me.

ps. have send one.

Firmware will be stored on a EEPROM(or like) a programmable chip. This stores the program that controls the camera. It loads into memory and the camera processor performs the program.

If the firmware update fails the program will be garbled (half old half new)and the camera won't work. Some modern PC motherboards have a fail safe where you can reload a default program. I doubt cameras have this which is why they always say make sure the battery is charged and will not get interrupted whilst upgrading the firmware. Or make sure you are on mains when you upgrade.

The EEPROM chip is probably hard wired into the main board of the camera being too small for the PC style replaceable chip package.

As the firmware is upgraded a couple of times over years the risk involved is slight and the braces of a fail safe EEPROM or replaceable EEPROM chip are just not worth putting in for the times needed.

This s the first firmware fail I have ever heard of on a camera and on PCs I've only heard of a couple.

Its bad luck and an accident albeit avoidable. Take heed once you start your upgrade leave your camera until its complete just in case your battery contacts are dodgy.

I doubt de Beukelaer will say anything different Stefan, but worth a try.

Doug isn't there a way to hook the EEPROM directly to a computer and force firmware on to it, I thought you had special adapters for that but I can be so wrong since I know very little about this.

Someone, somewhere on the web will know how, it's just finding the info.

John

probably not. The EEPROM will also hold the instructions for how to update itself. This goes into memory and the processor does its job to perform the update. The original EEPROM program is over-written block by block. Halfway through the power goes. Memory and processor revert to nothing(power on state) and EEPROM is now corrupt. EEPROM can not now reload.

The power is required to keep the update program working until the EEPROM is completely over written.

Replacing the chip not an option as its probably soldered into/onto the mainboard. Only option to replace the mainboard with the EEPROM.

There might be a gadget to bump start the EEPROM but why bother if this is going to happen once a year and the gadget and process and personnel to run it cost thousands and thousands. Its just not worth it for the risk.

Going back to PCs, the BIOS (EEPROM) chips used to be replaceable. So if you fry it you pull it and stick a new one in. Even my old mobo had some failsafe on the EEPROM. But for a camera with sub miniature surface mount components. Too much R&D for the handful of times it happens. If it costs 50k to provide this and you have 100 instances of this in the lifespan of the camera, its £500 per instance to repair the EEPROM. A new board probably costs £50 at cost.

Of course I have no knowledge of the insides of cameras. Its a guess.

Doug what I mean was a device like this used for programming the chip

But instead of the chip going into the device the device goes over the chip.

I know you've such things for the WII, that's where I know them from but I don't know if you've them for EEPROM and if it works with them.