Hot Shoe Microphone - Recommendations?
Posted 28/09/2014 - 19:02 - Helpful Comment
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The edit facility seems to have disappeared
I was just going to say that I use the mike on a K-5 and
that a windshield is essential outdoors.
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I was just going to say that I use the mike on a K-5 and
that a windshield is essential outdoors.
--
Half Man... Half Pentax ... Half Cucumber
Pentax K-1 + K-5 and some other stuff
Algi
Pentax K-1 + K-5 and some other stuff
Algi
Posted 01/10/2014 - 17:53
Link
I'd echo the recommendation to use a wind sock thing outdoors, and some mics will come with one. I've got a Polaroid branded one, very good value, check out Amazon, and it had a switch to control the angle that sound is captured from, eg 90deg in front of camera or 180deg right around.
I'll avoid ah extreme language like'superb', because we all know there's going to be more sophisticated options depending on your needs, but it is a very good step up from the sound from the built-in microphone.
I'll avoid ah extreme language like'superb', because we all know there's going to be more sophisticated options depending on your needs, but it is a very good step up from the sound from the built-in microphone.
My Guides to the Pentax Digital Camera Flash Lighting System : Download here from the PentaxForums Homepage Article .... link
Pentax K7 with BG-4 Grip / Samyang 14mm f2.8 ED AS IF UMC / DA18-55mm f3.5-5.6 AL WR / SMC A28mm f2.8 / D FA 28-105mm / SMC F35-70 f3.5-4.5 / SMC A50mm f1.7 / Tamron AF70-300mm f4-5.6 Di LD macro / SMC M75-150mm f4.0 / Tamron Adaptall (CT-135) 135mm f2.8 / Asahi Takumar-A 2X tele-converter / Pentax AF-540FGZ (I & II) Flashes / Cactus RF60/X Flashes & V6/V6II Transceiver
Pentax K7 with BG-4 Grip / Samyang 14mm f2.8 ED AS IF UMC / DA18-55mm f3.5-5.6 AL WR / SMC A28mm f2.8 / D FA 28-105mm / SMC F35-70 f3.5-4.5 / SMC A50mm f1.7 / Tamron AF70-300mm f4-5.6 Di LD macro / SMC M75-150mm f4.0 / Tamron Adaptall (CT-135) 135mm f2.8 / Asahi Takumar-A 2X tele-converter / Pentax AF-540FGZ (I & II) Flashes / Cactus RF60/X Flashes & V6/V6II Transceiver
Posted 01/10/2014 - 22:11
Link
AndrewA wrote:
Has anyone got a recommendation for a Hot Shoe Microphone please?
I am not wanting to spend a fortune but do want it to work!
Thanks
What type of situation are you looking to 'video' please? Has anyone got a recommendation for a Hot Shoe Microphone please?
I am not wanting to spend a fortune but do want it to work!
Thanks
If it's documentary style then you can look to record audio off camera, and that iPhone suggestion is actually a pretty good idea. Lapel mics etc are really good, but a multitude of mic types exist because of the multitude of possible uses for them.
The benefit of the hot shoe mic approach is that you get a place to mount a mic without needing to hold it, but the downside is it's not necessarily a particularly great place to mount a mic anyway, given you'll potentially get lens focussing sounds, button beeps/presses and operator breathing etc.
Depending on your editing software, the in camera audio track is best used to sync with the audio from another source. It's very easy to use another audio sauce and to then turn off the in camera audio track.
Posted 01/10/2014 - 22:23
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Richard, without wanting to resurrect the previous debate about the location of the hot shoe, I do think you may be exaggerating the potential of those issues you list to become an actual problem, at least assuming some awareness in advance.
For example, really, autofocus noise shouldn't be involved, as really (as we've all recommended before) manual focus is the better choice for video, and then you'd be turning the ring carefully and quietly if any refocussing is needed during recording. Beeps would be turned off for video, that's a simple custom setting, and the only button being pressed, surely, is to start / stop the recording. So, I don't believe any of those concerns is really a big thing, given a little setting up and careful filming technique...
I accept operator breathing may be recorded, if there's any exertion involved for example, but for myself I'm always aware when recording of my own noise potential, and you just try and stay quiet!
For example, really, autofocus noise shouldn't be involved, as really (as we've all recommended before) manual focus is the better choice for video, and then you'd be turning the ring carefully and quietly if any refocussing is needed during recording. Beeps would be turned off for video, that's a simple custom setting, and the only button being pressed, surely, is to start / stop the recording. So, I don't believe any of those concerns is really a big thing, given a little setting up and careful filming technique...
I accept operator breathing may be recorded, if there's any exertion involved for example, but for myself I'm always aware when recording of my own noise potential, and you just try and stay quiet!
My Guides to the Pentax Digital Camera Flash Lighting System : Download here from the PentaxForums Homepage Article .... link
Pentax K7 with BG-4 Grip / Samyang 14mm f2.8 ED AS IF UMC / DA18-55mm f3.5-5.6 AL WR / SMC A28mm f2.8 / D FA 28-105mm / SMC F35-70 f3.5-4.5 / SMC A50mm f1.7 / Tamron AF70-300mm f4-5.6 Di LD macro / SMC M75-150mm f4.0 / Tamron Adaptall (CT-135) 135mm f2.8 / Asahi Takumar-A 2X tele-converter / Pentax AF-540FGZ (I & II) Flashes / Cactus RF60/X Flashes & V6/V6II Transceiver
Pentax K7 with BG-4 Grip / Samyang 14mm f2.8 ED AS IF UMC / DA18-55mm f3.5-5.6 AL WR / SMC A28mm f2.8 / D FA 28-105mm / SMC F35-70 f3.5-4.5 / SMC A50mm f1.7 / Tamron AF70-300mm f4-5.6 Di LD macro / SMC M75-150mm f4.0 / Tamron Adaptall (CT-135) 135mm f2.8 / Asahi Takumar-A 2X tele-converter / Pentax AF-540FGZ (I & II) Flashes / Cactus RF60/X Flashes & V6/V6II Transceiver
Posted 01/10/2014 - 22:57
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I'm not looking to exaggerate anything really, just pointing out why the hot shoe mount is popular, which is mostly because it's convenient. If you have an LED lighting panel mounted up there then it's going to get a bit crowded etc. The degree to which any of these issues affects the user will be determined by their individual setup, and I don't presume to know the priorities of anyone else.
I'm not for or against the hotshoe mount really, and my main question is still what are you recording? There are a wide variety of mic types and you pick one mostly due to what you want to record. ie subject matter.
Directional mics can assist to block some local noise, but depending on your intended use, you may actually want this.
For sure if you want just a basic step up from the internal mic then a hot shoe mount with a wind sock type covering would be a big improvement in some instances. Wind is the biggest issue in my experience, ruining audio that could be useful for personal use situations.
For anything professional, or where you want better quality yourself, such as a wedding ceremony etc, then off camera is effectively it. Audio recorders are pretty cheap these days, but it all depends on the subject matter, as often you're on the go and don't have the ability to place formal mics at a particular event etc.
I'm not for or against the hotshoe mount really, and my main question is still what are you recording? There are a wide variety of mic types and you pick one mostly due to what you want to record. ie subject matter.
Directional mics can assist to block some local noise, but depending on your intended use, you may actually want this.
For sure if you want just a basic step up from the internal mic then a hot shoe mount with a wind sock type covering would be a big improvement in some instances. Wind is the biggest issue in my experience, ruining audio that could be useful for personal use situations.
For anything professional, or where you want better quality yourself, such as a wedding ceremony etc, then off camera is effectively it. Audio recorders are pretty cheap these days, but it all depends on the subject matter, as often you're on the go and don't have the ability to place formal mics at a particular event etc.
Posted 02/10/2014 - 07:55
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All fair points Richard, thanks. I imagine the range of products available now that support high quality audio for DSLR work is expanding, so the choice is very much there for the film maker. I think we've made the point before in another discussion about still recording an audio track on the cameras for the purpose of easy track alignment in editing.
It's the size of the operation and venue limitations that will decide the ultimate compromises and restrictions. I would still argue that, in sound quality terms, a carefully managed hot shoe MIC could serve adequately in some professional situations, but I accept that this should only be when those venue limitations dictate, and when there's no further practical options. It's very easy to bow to your superior experience in these matters Richard, because there's so much useful discussion and added value that comes out of the exchange
My own experience of sound output from an accessory hotshoe MIC is that so long as the recording is made carefully, like having a wind reducer outside, managing camera sounds and moving carefully yourself and keeping quiet, is that the stereo tracks, as recorded at a good bit-rate, are very impressive indeed. The K7 outputs sound with fabulous clarity, and the surround-sound effect when I set 180deg on the mic can freak you out, like when walking through a silent forest, the crunch of a leave off behind you is uncanny in its realism, making you jump in your seat just listening to it!
It's the size of the operation and venue limitations that will decide the ultimate compromises and restrictions. I would still argue that, in sound quality terms, a carefully managed hot shoe MIC could serve adequately in some professional situations, but I accept that this should only be when those venue limitations dictate, and when there's no further practical options. It's very easy to bow to your superior experience in these matters Richard, because there's so much useful discussion and added value that comes out of the exchange
My own experience of sound output from an accessory hotshoe MIC is that so long as the recording is made carefully, like having a wind reducer outside, managing camera sounds and moving carefully yourself and keeping quiet, is that the stereo tracks, as recorded at a good bit-rate, are very impressive indeed. The K7 outputs sound with fabulous clarity, and the surround-sound effect when I set 180deg on the mic can freak you out, like when walking through a silent forest, the crunch of a leave off behind you is uncanny in its realism, making you jump in your seat just listening to it!
My Guides to the Pentax Digital Camera Flash Lighting System : Download here from the PentaxForums Homepage Article .... link
Pentax K7 with BG-4 Grip / Samyang 14mm f2.8 ED AS IF UMC / DA18-55mm f3.5-5.6 AL WR / SMC A28mm f2.8 / D FA 28-105mm / SMC F35-70 f3.5-4.5 / SMC A50mm f1.7 / Tamron AF70-300mm f4-5.6 Di LD macro / SMC M75-150mm f4.0 / Tamron Adaptall (CT-135) 135mm f2.8 / Asahi Takumar-A 2X tele-converter / Pentax AF-540FGZ (I & II) Flashes / Cactus RF60/X Flashes & V6/V6II Transceiver
Pentax K7 with BG-4 Grip / Samyang 14mm f2.8 ED AS IF UMC / DA18-55mm f3.5-5.6 AL WR / SMC A28mm f2.8 / D FA 28-105mm / SMC F35-70 f3.5-4.5 / SMC A50mm f1.7 / Tamron AF70-300mm f4-5.6 Di LD macro / SMC M75-150mm f4.0 / Tamron Adaptall (CT-135) 135mm f2.8 / Asahi Takumar-A 2X tele-converter / Pentax AF-540FGZ (I & II) Flashes / Cactus RF60/X Flashes & V6/V6II Transceiver
Posted 02/10/2014 - 08:06
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I very slightly dabbled in shooting film movies, but soon realised that the only way to make them was to actually make them properly. That means not only good sound but also good editing and a very clear idea of what is to be shot and why. Otherwise it's just terminally painful to watch.
So I stuck with stills photography and for the odd impromptu video then a compact camera will produce an adequate record for family and friends. It covers kids performing a song perhaps and although not fantastic it suffices for the aunties and grannies to watch.
The BBC currently need a lesson in sound, as some recent programmes have been quite dreadful in the sound department. If the professionals have gone astray, what chance do we have?
So I stuck with stills photography and for the odd impromptu video then a compact camera will produce an adequate record for family and friends. It covers kids performing a song perhaps and although not fantastic it suffices for the aunties and grannies to watch.
The BBC currently need a lesson in sound, as some recent programmes have been quite dreadful in the sound department. If the professionals have gone astray, what chance do we have?
Best regards, John
Posted 02/10/2014 - 12:58
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You're right about the editing John, with single camera shooting it can end up being very dull. My home movies took a step up when I started shooting the same action from different angles, even just the group walking along ... A few L cut edits where you flick back and forward between the viewpoints can make a big difference.
I do think a DSLR and hotshoe MIC is a worth while, and quite big jump to in quality over a compact, If there's room to use it. And with that microphone on top you might even get people thinking you're the pro!
I do think a DSLR and hotshoe MIC is a worth while, and quite big jump to in quality over a compact, If there's room to use it. And with that microphone on top you might even get people thinking you're the pro!
My Guides to the Pentax Digital Camera Flash Lighting System : Download here from the PentaxForums Homepage Article .... link
Pentax K7 with BG-4 Grip / Samyang 14mm f2.8 ED AS IF UMC / DA18-55mm f3.5-5.6 AL WR / SMC A28mm f2.8 / D FA 28-105mm / SMC F35-70 f3.5-4.5 / SMC A50mm f1.7 / Tamron AF70-300mm f4-5.6 Di LD macro / SMC M75-150mm f4.0 / Tamron Adaptall (CT-135) 135mm f2.8 / Asahi Takumar-A 2X tele-converter / Pentax AF-540FGZ (I & II) Flashes / Cactus RF60/X Flashes & V6/V6II Transceiver
Pentax K7 with BG-4 Grip / Samyang 14mm f2.8 ED AS IF UMC / DA18-55mm f3.5-5.6 AL WR / SMC A28mm f2.8 / D FA 28-105mm / SMC F35-70 f3.5-4.5 / SMC A50mm f1.7 / Tamron AF70-300mm f4-5.6 Di LD macro / SMC M75-150mm f4.0 / Tamron Adaptall (CT-135) 135mm f2.8 / Asahi Takumar-A 2X tele-converter / Pentax AF-540FGZ (I & II) Flashes / Cactus RF60/X Flashes & V6/V6II Transceiver
Posted 02/10/2014 - 16:50
Link
richandfleur wrote:
If it's documentary style then you can look to record audio off camera, and that iPhone suggestion is actually a pretty good idea. Lapel mics etc are really good, but a multitude of mic types exist because of the multitude of possible uses for them.
The benefit of the hot shoe mic approach is that you get a place to mount a mic without needing to hold it, but the downside is it's not necessarily a particularly great place to mount a mic anyway, given you'll potentially get lens focussing sounds, button beeps/presses and operator breathing etc.
Depending on your editing software, the in camera audio track is best used to sync with the audio from another source. It's very easy to use another audio sauce and to then turn off the in camera audio track.
A work colleague and I have written a film script and have decided to film some of the scenes as taster.AndrewA wrote:
Has anyone got a recommendation for a Hot Shoe Microphone please?
I am not wanting to spend a fortune but do want it to work!
Thanks
What type of situation are you looking to 'video' please? Has anyone got a recommendation for a Hot Shoe Microphone please?
I am not wanting to spend a fortune but do want it to work!
Thanks
If it's documentary style then you can look to record audio off camera, and that iPhone suggestion is actually a pretty good idea. Lapel mics etc are really good, but a multitude of mic types exist because of the multitude of possible uses for them.
The benefit of the hot shoe mic approach is that you get a place to mount a mic without needing to hold it, but the downside is it's not necessarily a particularly great place to mount a mic anyway, given you'll potentially get lens focussing sounds, button beeps/presses and operator breathing etc.
Depending on your editing software, the in camera audio track is best used to sync with the audio from another source. It's very easy to use another audio sauce and to then turn off the in camera audio track.
Phil has already made a film using a handheld PSP but this time we have decided to use the K3.
It is all just a bit of fun really, but of course you never ever know....
Posted 02/10/2014 - 21:41 - Helpful Comment
Link
Thanks AndrewA, sounds really fun. I'm always excited by people giving it a go so good luck with your feature. We will look out for this at the local cinema
Depending on your location, and ability to control the ambient sound, then there may be a few options that could work well for you.
I'll let others comment on the hot shoe mic options they've used. My K-30 doesn't have a mic input, so this is not something I'm likely to do myself. As above, that approach is definitely convenient and will provide some improvements over the in camera mic/s. The biggest improvement for me comes from a windsock ability, as wind can totally wipe out an incamera/non protected mic surprisingly easily.
For me, I'd consider this sort of approach:
Rode iPhone Mic Link
Rode Lavalier microphone link
In general it's better to record audio close to the sauce , so the likes of the Lavalier clip ons could be really good, if you're in a position to mount them discretely on your actors. If not, or if that impedes the quality too much, then that idea's just not going to work
Ironically getting some recording device, or it's feed, closer to the action is probably going to produce a major improvement over in camera mics. Even an iPhone mic will sound better if placed right by the actors somehow, maybe just out of shot. Another option could be wireless mics and a receiver feeding straight into the camera's mic socket. This would remove the need for resyncing of the audio, if that's an issue for you.
Good luck
Depending on your location, and ability to control the ambient sound, then there may be a few options that could work well for you.
I'll let others comment on the hot shoe mic options they've used. My K-30 doesn't have a mic input, so this is not something I'm likely to do myself. As above, that approach is definitely convenient and will provide some improvements over the in camera mic/s. The biggest improvement for me comes from a windsock ability, as wind can totally wipe out an incamera/non protected mic surprisingly easily.
For me, I'd consider this sort of approach:
Rode iPhone Mic Link
Rode Lavalier microphone link
In general it's better to record audio close to the sauce , so the likes of the Lavalier clip ons could be really good, if you're in a position to mount them discretely on your actors. If not, or if that impedes the quality too much, then that idea's just not going to work
Ironically getting some recording device, or it's feed, closer to the action is probably going to produce a major improvement over in camera mics. Even an iPhone mic will sound better if placed right by the actors somehow, maybe just out of shot. Another option could be wireless mics and a receiver feeding straight into the camera's mic socket. This would remove the need for resyncing of the audio, if that's an issue for you.
Good luck
Posted 02/10/2014 - 23:03
Link
richandfleur wrote:
Thanks AndrewA, sounds really fun. I'm always excited by people giving it a go so good luck with your feature. We will look out for this at the local cinema
Depending on your location, and ability to control the ambient sound, then there may be a few options that could work well for you.
I'll let others comment on the hot shoe mic options they've used. My K-30 doesn't have a mic input, so this is not something I'm likely to do myself. As above, that approach is definitely convenient and will provide some improvements over the in camera mic/s. The biggest improvement for me comes from a windsock ability, as wind can totally wipe out an incamera/non protected mic surprisingly easily.
For me, I'd consider this sort of approach:
Rode iPhone Mic Link
Rode Lavalier microphone link
In general it's better to record audio close to the sauce , so the likes of the Lavalier clip ons could be really good, if you're in a position to mount them discretely on your actors. If not, or if that impedes the quality too much, then that idea's just not going to work
Ironically getting some recording device, or it's feed, closer to the action is probably going to produce a major improvement over in camera mics. Even an iPhone mic will sound better if placed right by the actors somehow, maybe just out of shot. Another option could be wireless mics and a receiver feeding straight into the camera's mic socket. This would remove the need for resyncing of the audio, if that's an issue for you.
Good luck
Thank you this is really helpful.
Thanks AndrewA, sounds really fun. I'm always excited by people giving it a go so good luck with your feature. We will look out for this at the local cinema
Depending on your location, and ability to control the ambient sound, then there may be a few options that could work well for you.
I'll let others comment on the hot shoe mic options they've used. My K-30 doesn't have a mic input, so this is not something I'm likely to do myself. As above, that approach is definitely convenient and will provide some improvements over the in camera mic/s. The biggest improvement for me comes from a windsock ability, as wind can totally wipe out an incamera/non protected mic surprisingly easily.
For me, I'd consider this sort of approach:
Rode iPhone Mic Link
Rode Lavalier microphone link
In general it's better to record audio close to the sauce , so the likes of the Lavalier clip ons could be really good, if you're in a position to mount them discretely on your actors. If not, or if that impedes the quality too much, then that idea's just not going to work
Ironically getting some recording device, or it's feed, closer to the action is probably going to produce a major improvement over in camera mics. Even an iPhone mic will sound better if placed right by the actors somehow, maybe just out of shot. Another option could be wireless mics and a receiver feeding straight into the camera's mic socket. This would remove the need for resyncing of the audio, if that's an issue for you.
Good luck
Posted 03/10/2014 - 02:03 - Helpful Comment
Link
No worries.
It's a big area, so just wanted to get a feel for what you'd want to do with the gear. It's a bit like asking "What lens should I get for my new DSLR body?" to which the response should definitely include "What do you want to take photos of?" etc
Mic's have different Polar Patterns which means all those different types do different things, or more specifically they get audio from different areas around the camera at different 'volumes'.
Just like ISO noise issues in images, you have noise in audio recordings as well, so you want to capture the audio that's important to you strongly against the background noise. If there is a good separation then you can do things to remove the noise in post. Much like still image noise reduction.
Audio levels is another thing to consider, so you don't 'clip' your audio, which is the same as fully overexposing, or under exposing an area of your stills image, such that the highlights are blown out to full white/or full black and can never be recovered. Pentax cameras offer warnings of this visually as blinking colours on the rear LCD screen.
Pentax cameras (well my K-30) are very poor in this area in audio though, as they don't show realtime audio levels. You are given 5? settings for the recorded audio level, but are given no visual indication of the need to record audio at a lower or higher level. This is another reason that I'm personally keen to handle audio externally to the camera.
Exciting things to read up on with regards to post are:
Denoiser in Adobe Premiere and Low and High Pass filters.
Denoiser is a smart audio noise reduction effect, which looks for hiss/background noise to reduce, and the filters allow you to block audio above or below a certain frequency. A bandpass, or notch, filter does the same thing in one effect, but I like to handle them separately.
An example would be low rumbling or high end hiss, which you could remove from your audio/dialog track with the use of appropriate filters.
Quick hunt for audio clean up examplelink
he's rough, but beer with it
It's a big area, so just wanted to get a feel for what you'd want to do with the gear. It's a bit like asking "What lens should I get for my new DSLR body?" to which the response should definitely include "What do you want to take photos of?" etc
Mic's have different Polar Patterns which means all those different types do different things, or more specifically they get audio from different areas around the camera at different 'volumes'.
Just like ISO noise issues in images, you have noise in audio recordings as well, so you want to capture the audio that's important to you strongly against the background noise. If there is a good separation then you can do things to remove the noise in post. Much like still image noise reduction.
Audio levels is another thing to consider, so you don't 'clip' your audio, which is the same as fully overexposing, or under exposing an area of your stills image, such that the highlights are blown out to full white/or full black and can never be recovered. Pentax cameras offer warnings of this visually as blinking colours on the rear LCD screen.
Pentax cameras (well my K-30) are very poor in this area in audio though, as they don't show realtime audio levels. You are given 5? settings for the recorded audio level, but are given no visual indication of the need to record audio at a lower or higher level. This is another reason that I'm personally keen to handle audio externally to the camera.
Exciting things to read up on with regards to post are:
Denoiser in Adobe Premiere and Low and High Pass filters.
Denoiser is a smart audio noise reduction effect, which looks for hiss/background noise to reduce, and the filters allow you to block audio above or below a certain frequency. A bandpass, or notch, filter does the same thing in one effect, but I like to handle them separately.
An example would be low rumbling or high end hiss, which you could remove from your audio/dialog track with the use of appropriate filters.
Quick hunt for audio clean up examplelink
he's rough, but beer with it
Posted 06/10/2014 - 14:07 - Helpful Comment
Link
I know nothing about mics! However, I have just come across this writeup which might be of interest to you
http://www.amateurphotographer.co.uk/round-ups/accessory_round_ups/best-hotshoe-...
http://www.amateurphotographer.co.uk/round-ups/accessory_round_ups/best-hotshoe-...
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8880 posts
16 years
Lancashire
This ebay_seller sells all sorts of mikes. They used to make a lot of their own, but
it seems they just retail most stuff now.
I use one of their old DAT stereo mikes just held in my left
hand on the rare occasions that I do video.
http://stores.ebay.co.uk/micronic007
--
Pentax K-1 + K-5 and some other stuff
Algi