Help with sharpness please

Thordell
Posted 24/08/2009 - 13:51 Link
This is a miniature bloom actual size about 1.5cm it was taken with the K7, Sigma 105mm macro, 1/180 @ f5, ISO200, flash fired. It was taken about 45cm from the subject and I want to know if this is acceptably sharp over a wide enough area. The camera was on a tripod but it was fired by hand. It has also been through the Photobucket system.

Did expect the DOF to be more at f5 and so close but perhaps I am expecting too much.

[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/Thordell/Cameracheck1.jpg[/IMG]
Jackie H
K7, K20D, istDS, Optio SV, ME
Most used glass
50mm f1.4, 60-250mm, 28-80mm,
Sigma 105mm 2.8 Macro & Bertha 50-500
johnriley
Posted 24/08/2009 - 14:04 Link
Personally I'd use a far smaller aperture, more like f22 for a subject this close and with this much depth to it.

The second thing is where to focus, and that would be about a third of the way into the depth that you want to be in focus.

I feel there's too much out of focus here, especially with the large shadow across the image.

So for me it would be on a tripod, natural light and the smallest possible aperture. Shutter speed could be quite long, so using the 2 second delayed action will ensure we don't add any shake from operating the shutter release.

Hope that helps!
Best regards, John
terje-l
Posted 24/08/2009 - 14:07 Link
The subject is beautiful, but IMHO the unsharp foreground somewhat destroys the impression.

To my eye, the focus point is at the rearmost petal. I think it should have been more at the front, or centered.

Why not try f/16 or even higher to get a wider DOF?

Edit: John beat me to it, and with a much better explanation...
Best regards
Terry

K20D, Optio I10, DA 18-55 1:3.5-5.6 AL II, A 1:1.7/50, D FA 1:2.8/100 Macro, Sigma 70-300 1:4-5.6 APO DG Macro, Pentax AF 360FGZ
Edited by terje-l: 24/08/2009 - 14:09
Thordell
Posted 24/08/2009 - 14:21 Link
Thank you both, I was surprised how narrow the DOF was, I choose f5 because I did not want the kitchen cupboards in focus (not pretty) The dark shadow is a part of the bloom that is dark green, however I will try again with a smaller aperture and if I have to use a small lamp so be it. Would take it outside but the thing is so small that the slightest wind will move it.
Jackie H
K7, K20D, istDS, Optio SV, ME
Most used glass
50mm f1.4, 60-250mm, 28-80mm,
Sigma 105mm 2.8 Macro & Bertha 50-500
johnriley
Posted 24/08/2009 - 14:24 Link
The best light of all will be a North facing window, if you have one!
Best regards, John
Father Ted
Posted 24/08/2009 - 14:27 Link
Not the sort of shot I'd usally take, but out of curiousity...why North facing window?
Getting there! Thanks to you guys

Pentax K3ii, Pentax K10d, Kit lens ( 18-55mm ), 50mm f1.7 lens, Tamron 70-300mm lens, Prinzflex 70-162 manual lens, Various old flashes.
johnriley
Posted 24/08/2009 - 14:36 Link
The classic light source for artists is the North facing window, which is said to give the most pleasing light to paint by. Studios with a large window usually have it North facing. This extends to photography very well and gives flattering portrait light.
Best regards, John
Father Ted
Posted 24/08/2009 - 14:57 Link
I shall have to remember that.
Getting there! Thanks to you guys

Pentax K3ii, Pentax K10d, Kit lens ( 18-55mm ), 50mm f1.7 lens, Tamron 70-300mm lens, Prinzflex 70-162 manual lens, Various old flashes.
nass
Posted 24/08/2009 - 15:15 Link
johnriley wrote:
The classic light source for artists is the North facing window, which is said to give the most pleasing light to paint by. Studios with a large window usually have it North facing. This extends to photography very well and gives flattering portrait light.
Just a small addition, another reason north light is liked in photography studios is because it's constant. Ie unlike east/south/west, the sun doesn't change angle with respect to it. Ie it's not full shade on minute, bright the next - it's always shade
... just another middle-aged guy with a hobby. I have an extreme macro learning site at extreme-macro.co.uk - Pentax-centric, your feedback and comments would be appreciated!
Edited by nass: 24/08/2009 - 15:16
Thordell
Posted 24/08/2009 - 19:59 Link
Very grateful folks think I am beginning to get there now. The room I was using has two windows one facing N.E. and the other S. so sadly no north window, like most homes I have no north facing windows. Because I am unable to see the viewfinder screen properly I was beginnings to loose faith in my K7 but I am now feeling much better thanks to your help.

[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/Thordell/Plants%20and%20Flowers/Singleminiaturerosebud.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/Thordell/Plants%20and%20Flowers/Singleminiaturerose.jpg[/IMG]

Think I will choose something a bit larger for my next project.
Jackie H
K7, K20D, istDS, Optio SV, ME
Most used glass
50mm f1.4, 60-250mm, 28-80mm,
Sigma 105mm 2.8 Macro & Bertha 50-500
johnriley
Posted 24/08/2009 - 20:24 Link
These are much better. Did you use a tripod? If not, that will help in getting really crisp pictures.
Best regards, John
Thordell
Posted 24/08/2009 - 20:34 Link
Yes John I did but they were hand fired, as the images are about 3 times the actual size I am more or less content with what I have although I will always try for something better, but the main thing is I am now more confident in the new body.
Jackie H
K7, K20D, istDS, Optio SV, ME
Most used glass
50mm f1.4, 60-250mm, 28-80mm,
Sigma 105mm 2.8 Macro & Bertha 50-500
johnriley
Posted 24/08/2009 - 21:16 Link
With such a small subject focusing is ultra-critical but also if you use the 2 second delayed action any shake will be eliminated. That should do the trick for you!
Best regards, John
Thordell
Posted 25/08/2009 - 08:13 Link
Ah, yes, I can see that John, thanks. Will in that case revisit the plant today and see if I can get it sharper using a delay - thanks.
Jackie H
K7, K20D, istDS, Optio SV, ME
Most used glass
50mm f1.4, 60-250mm, 28-80mm,
Sigma 105mm 2.8 Macro & Bertha 50-500
piotro
Posted 25/08/2009 - 08:23 Link
Bear in mind that there is one more important factor (two really - focal length as well) when estimating how wide DOF will be - distance from the subject, based on the first example, with 45cm from the object even changing to f/22 will not help much using 105mm lens (means DOF still will be too shallow to have whole flower in focus).
You may check it by using some DOF calculators available around, some example one here:
http://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html
Edited by piotro: 25/08/2009 - 08:25

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