Focusing when shooting birds?

Went out to test the new 100-300 yesterday. Unfortunately I couldnt get real close to the wildfowl, but shot at 300mm with the K20d there is plenty of scope to crop at 100%. When I did I had a couple of what would be nice shots.
Trouble is the subject was pretty much out of focus and I guess focusing on a small bird even with spot focus can be tricky especially when in flight.
I was shooting at f4 which I dont suppose helped either, but are there any general tips on how to get your subject in focus?
Small aperture and forget isolating the bird?
Centre weight focus?
Get a bigger lens lol?

Steve

you may not want to hear this.....
manual focus.
that's what I use 90% of the time.
birds, like people, will tend to sit in the same spot, if it's available.
pick your spot, pre focus, wait for the bird.
getting af on fast moving, tiny subjects is harder.
boils down to how good the lens is and how much light you got.

yeah I guess so Don , actually Im okay about manual focus and use it most of the time for landscape shots. Trouble is when the subject is distant, i.e. the bird is quite small, then isn't it still quite difficult to tell if you are focused correctly through the viewfinder?especially if using a short DOF.
Dunno I am a beginner at this so all advice appreciated.

Are you sure it was a focus problem and not camera shake? the SR on the K20D is good but its not perfect, and remember the 300mm becomes 450mm on your K20D.

Shooting birds in flight is a major problem for Pentax users You'd do better to switch to Canon or Nikon for a higher FPS, alternatively you could stick with the Pentax and get the shots using patience and skill

Well, the bird in flight could have been camera shake, but I was shooting at 500/sec so I wouldn't have thought so.
My thoughts were that because it was fairly distant that spot metering wasnt quite locking on the bird (stationary this one) and because I was using f4 for shallow depth of field, that the focal point must have been in front or behind the bird. I will try and post an image here in a few minutes.

Okay here we go

First shot at 300mm f4 to test followed by 100% crop

[IMG]http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f396/Hannabella/300test.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f396/Hannabella/300testcrop.jpg[/IMG]

second shot is of a fairly stationary bird and 100% crop, 300mm and f4 which seems fairly soft on the bird, I know theres an out of focus plant in the foreground, but the rest of the bird is still quite soft.

[IMG]http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f396/Hannabella/Bird.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f396/Hannabella/Birdcrop.jpg[/IMG]

Finally the Heron in flight and 100% crop 300mmm f4. Same thing really

[IMG]http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f396/Hannabella/Flying.jpg[/IMG]


[IMG]http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f396/Hannabella/Flyingcrop.jpg[/IMG]

I never shoot wide open, prefer to crank it down a stop as I find that I get much better sharpness when I do.

I got this Xmas day with my Pentax F* 300mm f4.5 (I was going for the Sigma 100-300mm until this came along).
I did do a couple at f4.5 but they were pretty soft but at f5.6 things get a lot better.
That is approx a 75% crop, maybe a little more.

Okay Mike I shall try a smaller aperture next time. Thanks

Steve

Shooting at 300mm probably requires a shutter speed of at least 1/500th/sec (you might just get away with 1/250th on an SR equipped body) and an aperture of f8 - f16 would be ideal.

To achieve those settings in failing light is a big ask of any lens and your only real option is to increase the ISO to 800 or 1600. Shadow noise might then be a problem.

Experimentation is the key.

The amount by which you've had to crop the heron pic for example, is unlikely to produce a satisfactory image IMHO in any event unless you are extremely lucky.

Well, you did better than me!

Cheers, Kris.

Mamnesty
as much as that? 500th at F16 would need some light, it was late afternoon as I went for warm light, but I take your point and shall experiment. I agree re- the amount of cropping but cropped to 100% to demonstrate the problem.

Womble, nice shot I did see the original thread and it did make me laugh, that was before my first feeble attempt at bird photography yesterday.

Thanks

Steve

Were you panning with it?

I've found that with bird photography the main key to getting good shots (like most photography) is light - and lots of it. Especially at this time of the year when the sun is low in the sky, you really must have a clear sunny day.

When taking photo's of birds you need to have a stable camera. Relying on SR is too hit and miss and with a 300mm+ lens you need to have it resting on something if you want to be able to use 100% crops. So, a tripod, a monopod, a tree stump, etc.

Both of these then mean that you can use an f-stop of around f4.5 to f5.6 (I rarely use anything smaller for birds) and as fast a speed as you can get from that. Hiking the ISO will help keep up the speed, but at a serious cost of noise if you want to use 100% crops.

With BIFs, I tend to use the multi-point focus and AF-C.

Sounds obvious, but you really need to get as close as you dare.

Lastly, especially with birds in flight, it takes practice. Following birds and predicting their flight will pay dividends in the end.

A few examples with the DA* 300mm:










I've only got BIFs with the Sigma 500mm:

I have never understood this description. If you had included the foreground moorhen in your crop, would that be described as 100% crop too. If so, the description is meaningless, as I have always understood it to be.

Your crop is actually about 1% of the original, and I find that much more meaningful and much less arbitrary.

If you've got to crop to 1% of the original . . the original ain't big enough. Get closer.

Chirpy
Some good points there thanks.
Muti-point focus and AF-C, I suppose that makes sense now that you say it. I was on Spot Focus and AF-S so focus could be anywhere on BIF as tracking is difficult.
I will try BIF again with the 1.4 TC when I get it and may even try a x2 to see what its like, though I imagine I will be losing a bit by that point.

Iceblinker
Yes I was panning



Cheers
Steve