Cold ,wet and dark Whitby!

Not at all

And, I'd like to add that I'm glad you came back after your initial post. I've seen it elsewhere when people come on a forum with a complaint ( genuine or otherwise) make one and disappear.
If we can build up a rapport, then we'll all understand where we are coming from.

Also, as to agression from 'togs.
As a group we tend to be on the receiving end of much flack especially about public photography. Photographers stopped under the prevention of terrorism act, I was called a paedophile because I had my son with me whilst out taking photos, so, I suppose we, too, can be a little defensive.

Perhaps it would be a little less ambiguous if you directed your comments at somebody in particular, it is an interesting debate but if you specifically object to somebody's post maybe you should highlight them quote them or whatever.

I say this because I don't think everyone on the thread disagrees with what you are saying- to me you are talking about respect and common decency- if any of the photographers can't grasp this i would argue that they lack a fundamental necessary for shooting good shots- rapport with the subject.

Lets face it, the picture of your friend in the cream dress isn't very good, the photographer who took it has failed to capture anything interesting.

If you're a photographer, then you know you're stretching the truth to it's limit. PERMISSION IS NOT REQUIRED to take pictures of a public event or it's participants. However, I wouldn't jump in someone's face to get a picture. I would ask the person if he/she wants to pose. But, for candids, I'll take all the pictures I want. If the same people weren't part of a public event, then I'd ask permission before taking their portrait. If those same people are in the street and I happen to see them and photograph them, then so be it.

However, I wouldn't try to sell the pictures of people taken in the street without those people's consent. The pictures from a public event, I'd sell anytime. If you don't like it, make sure you're not part of a public event.

My comments are directed at pentaxian450, who claimed that anyone dressed outrageously wants the attention; gtis, who took the offending photograph of my friend and fatspider, who then congratulated the photographer with some comments that really should be consigned to football terraces if anywhere.

The picture of my friend in cream is not very good, no. But what it does show is that gtis wanted to display to you and everyone else here that he managed to take a photograph of a girl, despite clearly knowing that was against her wishes.

Not nice.

Unless this is the kind of behaviour you would condone being levelled at your own daughters or sisters, suggest that it is unacceptable the next time it arises.

I am well aware that permission is not required in a public place to take photographs. But due to the vast numbers of photographers that now descend upon Whitby, to avoid intimidating your subjects, who will have had to deal with numbers of you beforehand and many more after, ask. If you have any sense of respect about what you are doing, ask. Otherwise you will lose your subject material as they will either only come out at night (as I do) or they will simply not come to Whitby at all.

Hard to argue with you there.

I think the right to photograph people in a public place without permission is a right that comes with a responsibilty. Respect and decency should be paramount, pictures secondary.

Well some of the comments on this thread are a right load of codswallop. How can anyone make assuptions about someones integrity just by reading a few lines on a forum? unless of course they are psychic.

If any of these "new members" would care to look specifically at the images posted by myself they will find in the majority of studies there is direct eye contact with the model in question, anyone I photograph will also be given a card and told they are welcome to contact me for FREE copies of any images I take

Now a few words @ Goth_and_photographer;
My reference to the girls skirt was made tongue in cheek, hence the use of plenty of emoticons, no one can deny she is dressed in rather erotic attire and as such will undoubtebly attract such attentions and comments, mine were clearly light hearted banter, if you really do think they were, and I quote "shocking sexism" then perhaps we should all be dressing as Quakers and sticking to a strict code of political correctness. But then I suppose you have never nudged your mate in the pub and made a few choice comments about some attractive girl (or guy) thats just walked in, be careful how you reply or your halo might slip.

There in lies the problem with any on line forum- you are going to be judged on what you write.

I'm sure your comments were indeed tongue in cheek. I am certainly not offended.

I can imagine a young female photographer reading the thread and deciding that this forum is not a place for them. But that's just me.

Point taken John, I shall make sure I censor my posts in future

This is not the first time I've upset someone who didn't understand the use of emoticons, I shall save my dry sense of humour and witty demeanour for verbal conversations.

On the other hand why change a lifetimes habit

LOL.

Ever wondered why? )

I am simply repeating what was said during the radio interview between the vicar and Jeremy Vine, if its not true I apologise, but I see no reason why either would lie.

Had the post been worded a little better to make that clearer then I would not have picked up on it. I apologise.

I said so as I didn't think I'd have to hang around to justify it. again, I apologise, looks like I'll be here for a while.

As as ex pro photographer I am sickened by the behaviour of some of the people there, but as has been pointed out, its not everyone. I apologise if asking (generally) for respect has brought a flame war to your forum. However, if we're ever to reach some kind of mutual respect, we need to stop remarks like this from pentaxian450

"If you don't like it, you can stay home"

Twice a year I go to a music festival and this attitude is why I feel like I can't walk around the town, people like this seems to believe I'm there for their benefit. Seems to me that amongst you genuine people with an interest in photgraphy we have a shining example of the problems that a large number of us face while trying to relax and have fun.

Thanks to everyone that's commented, its good to see that the majority of you do ask permission, I'm grateful for your input and understanding, as ever its the few 'bad apples'. I've seen some stunning photography from the weekend, and I do understand that some people feel the need to dress up and be seen, thank you for understanding that its not all of them.

and pentaxian450... you've brought shame on a lot of decent people with that atitude. I hope it changes.

If you don't want your pictures taken in a public event, JUST STAY OUT OF IT.

One thing you need to understand..

Its NOT a public event, its a music festval, these people are there becasue of that reason alone and during the day might fancy a trip to the the abbey or a walk around the town.

A bit like when you go on holiday and do some sightseeing. Only I assume you're not followed by packs of photographers on yours?

So this is how we behave when a thread gets overlooked? Calm down please everyone.

If you want to get on with people as photographers then being intrusive and aggressive is not the way.

As for the photograph in question, it is easy to remove it, but the person involved has not complained as far as I understand it. I'll think that one over as in itself it doesn't seem to be offensive even if as alleged the method of taking it was offensive.

@ Martin

So stick around a lot longer, buy a Pentax and join the community, we'll have you snapping like a pro again in no time at all

As for the issue of the gravestones and the churches "ban" etc, this was discussed on here a month or so ago in a different thread, so we were all quite aware of the problem, not that we tend to visit the churchyard a lot anyway, some of us find the steps a strain on the old ticker.

We really are a nice bunch of guys and gals on the PU forum but been told what we can and cant do and what we shouldn't be doing (when were not even doing it) is rather irritating.

As for whether the event is public or not the fact remains that people parade around the Town in elaborate costumes, many of who do like the attention of the Togs, as I've said earlier a lot of these are not even proper Goths (as per those who descended from the Punk Era) but simply people who have jumped on the bandwagon and see the event as an excuse to dress up and escape from reality for a while. Perhaps the WGW has become too much of a success for its own good.

If you read through enough of this forum you will also find discussions about other venues for PU meets as an alternative to the WGW, simply because of the fact that it is getting too busy with photographers, so we really do care

@JR

John, I dont think the issue is with the image, it seems to have started more as having a go at the undesireable togs who visit the WGW, unfortunately the OP has picked the wrong forum and his choice of words could have been better, as probably could many of ours in response.