Bad trader warning

Just finished off a deal with a retailer Pauls Camera's who also trades on ebay as photopro1.co.uk.

Sale was agreed with bank transfer as the method of payment as he doesnt accept paypal (agreed prior to my bidding)
I then paid his full buy it now price for a new old stock sigma 28mm lens.
I emailed him asking for his bank details.. no reply.. tried again.. no reply..
Traced his shop and two phonecalls later (took 2 days) got his bank details and sent the money the same day..

Over week later I finally recieved the item.. sent 2nd class recorded delivery , cost to him £1.62.. approx cost of secondhand box and polystyrene bits £1.50 at best..

Total charge to me for postage.... £10!!!!!!

I then emailed him to try and sort out the discrepancy.. no reply.. so after waiting for several days.. left him negative feedback stating clearly the item was fine but he overcharged on postage.
He responded by slamming me with negative claiming "extremely poor ebayer.not recommended to all ever.to ANYONE"

So be warned.. he overcharges for postage.. doesnt use the industry standard next day delivery or even first class or a courier, in fact the method he uses means at best there is just £34 compensation if things go wrong.
I think I can also safley assume that he wont honour the warranty on the lens I bought.
Sorry but I think its important to out the bad eggs that others may deal with.. this one has cost me my 100% rating.. but then the other 349 who have left me feedback as both sellers and buyers cant be wrong can they?

It does sound poor, the way you describe it, and since I wasn't involved I'm not, of course, challenging your account of the situation.

But I have to say, the feedback that appears to be from you, reads (to me) somewhat more aggressively than you imply here, and does not refer to the item being fine.

I say this purely because we can sometimes have such different perceptions of the same situations.

I've been dealing on eBay on and off now, for some months, and I can see there are a lot of potential pitfalls.

I recently bought an FA 80-320, which turned out to be cosmetically not as good as advertised. I was offered a return or a partial refund, and we negotiated a partial refund. Then I had the chance to check it out optically, and had cause for concern. So I asked him if, after all, I could return it. He was quite sniffy about it, but agreed. I'd paid the postage both ways of course.

On reflection, I came to the conclusion that if I gave him the benefit of the doubt, his view of the cosmetics could be described as different from mine, and that he wasn't necessarily a lying cheat. So on the basis that at least he did the refund promptly, I gave him some positive feedback, hoping for some in return, given that it was a reasonably amicable agreement despite both of us being quite disappointed. However, there's been nothing, and I suppose I should be glad that he didn't give me negative. He still could, I suppose.

I've come to the conclusion that the feedback system is wide open to abuse, and that anyone who deserves negative, will probably give it, purely to retaliate. I'm trying to find better ways of reading between the lines in the listings - in retrospect this one wasn't hard to spot.

If anyone's looking for an FA 80-320, by the way, and wants to check up on one that's listed in the near future, in case it's the one I rejected, I took some pictures before it went back

I'm sorry Ian but with respect I cannot really see your warning as being valid to post here on this forum. First of all, the £10 you paid was not for postage as you claim but for shipping and handling as stated by the seller. Besides, did you not already agree to pay that price by confirming the sale? You say that you got your lens in good condition in one week so all things considered (see below) you should be happy that you even got it all. Are you just unhappy with the second hand box then?

The way I see it this seller would not be someone I would buy from in the first place.
1 - Does not take PayPal or Credit Cards. You would be near helpless if he just cashed your bank transfer and didn't send the lens at all. Page down to July/04 of his feedback list and tell me you aren't real lucky.
2. Right from the start he did not answer your emails. Did no alarm bells start to go off for you?

Seems to me you just have sour grapes because he, like many others on EBay, make their money as shippers rather than as retailers . Giving frivilous bad feedback has serious consequences if you don't want to risk bad feedback yourself especially from a flakey seller like this. That is one of the major flaws with E-Bay in my opinion but good communication both ways is the key to avoid receiving or having to give bad feedback.

Well, good luck... no - scratch that, better research in the future Ian.

Drew

We don't want to get in the habit of naming and shaming individuals who have no effective right of reply. The correct place to do that is via the feedback system on eBay.

Having said that, the feedback system is not perfect. If I see anyone has been given negative feedback though, the first thing I do is check the other way to see how they have responded to it. If it's a reasoned rsponse that is fair enough, but a retaliation is not. It's all there for everyone to view and make up their mind about.

As regards insurance, if we don't pay for it then we should accept the risk. As a buyer I make a choice in this respect, depending on the value of the item. As a seller I sometimes insure anyway, depending on value, but that is as much to protect myself as anyone else.

Unjustified poor feedback will always be annoying, but I'm not sure that there is much defence against it.

I expect I could speed up the process with more practice.

But by the time I've printed out the invoice, wrapped up the item carefully in bubblepack, arranged more bubblepack in the box, placed the wrapped item in the box, put more bubble pack on top, taped the box up with the invoice inside, ensured I've spelled the address right, walked down to the Post Office, filled in the Signed-For or Special Delivery form, queued up for at least 10 minutes, stuck the bits on the weighed package, and walked back from the Post Office, it's at least an hour, more like an hour and a half, usually.

What's that in minimum wage terms?

IanCandler

I have been using Ebay/PayPal for a long time. I find the best and safest way is not to buy from anyone with less than a 98% positive feedback, with at least 100 deals under their belt and only use Paypal. Try to never deal with a newbie. All of this still does not mean you will not get screwed.

Shipping and handling charges can be the the biggest rip off on Ebay.

If one leaves negative feedback, it's a given one will get it back justified or not.

I have had one very bad experience with a total jerk buyer that continued for weeks. This was due to me wandering from my policy.

Even with care I have had many minor problems.

If one uses Ebay be prepared for "Sh-t Happens"

RG.

I've dealt with the same guy and had exactly the same experience. I got very wound up by the whole thing, but as people say, ultimately the lens came, which is the important thing. I would never deal with him again though.

Hi,

I buy & sell on ebay as a hobby to fund my photography. I came across this seller about a year ago, as he had an item I wanted....but I checked his feedback, which has many unhappy buyers...and it shows a pattern, which I ALWAYS specifically look out for in sellers feedback. The pattern showed he has a history of not contacting or emailing people. His post charges were also high considering the light & small items he was selling....SO I DID NOT BID!...that is the mistake you made....you should have avoided him.

By the way, on the point of p&p charges...even dealers like Ffordes, MXV etc...they only ever charge about £7-8 for lenses AND they are sent special delivery (fully insured)...I do not buy the 'hourly rate' nonsense....if camera dealers (businesses) can send lenses for £8 fully insured, then this seller charging £10 for 2nd class mail IS a rip off....but it is the buyers error, in bidding in the first place.

and John...I strongly believe we SHOULD be allowed to name and shame poor sellers, of any sort. They can respond if they so wish, but as a former retailer myself, I do think good and bad service should be mentioned in the public domain.


cheers Steve.M.

You haven't actually been stopped yet, but naming and shaming has an innate flaw. As a retailer, you must have had many occasions where totally unreasonable customers cause havoc and disruption and refuse to understand how they should behave reasonably. In just the same way there are retailers who refuse to co-operate and fulfill their obligations without a major fight with the customer.

It is not for this forum to get involved with that, this is about photography, not arguments between buyers and sellers. Don't forget that forums are responsible for what they host and when it becomes potentially libellous then it gets removed.

In the cae of eBay, as always caveat emptor and, fortunately, the opinions of people who have had previous dealings are there to be seen by all. Some of the feedback is spurious and unfair, both from buyers and sellers, but it's the best that we have.

My personal experience has been fine apart from one rogue buyer who left negative feedback whilst refusing to explain what was wrong and clearly having no wish to resolve it. Under those sort of circumstances, unfortunately there is nothing that can be done and I shall never know what his or her problem was...

What's the Latin for let the seller beware?

If you run a mail order business, you have no choice but to streamline your whole packaging operation so that the time it takes to pack the thing up is short.

Because otherwise, the hourly rate "nonsense" becomes very important, since time spent packing things is not spent doing other things.

The reason businesses can send lenses for very little more than the cost of the postage is that they have done that streamlining, probably mostly by economies of scale, which I'm sure you understand.

Obviously, Joe Public, flogging the occasional item on eBay isn't going to be able to charge for shipping and handling what it actually costs him, unlike a business that has no choice but to do exactly that, and has the flexibility to pass the costs on to the customers in a variety of ways that are mostly unnoticeable.

In the immortal words of Robert Heinlein, there ain't no such thing as a free lunch.

I do agree with this. I just think the way some react to a few quid over the odds for the shipping is a bit excessive.

I suspect that it's not so much the few quid difference, but the frustration with the communication, the worry about getting the thing at all, and the worry about the inevitable huge additional hassle should anything go wrong with it.

I guess that an excessive postage charge for 2nd class carriage is an indicator of the levels of service to be expected in other areas.

well the latest update is that he has now filed un unpaid item dispute despite the fact that I paid for the item on the 31st oct and the funds cleared into his account on the 5th of november.

* wintoid * Its sad to say but I'm glad I'm not the only person who has had problems with him as it gives further creedance to my post.


I feel its important to name and shame those in the game who do rip off customers, those we meet within online forums are often looked upon as friends who we would not wish to have the same problems as we are.
Whilst I fully understand some reservations as some customers can be just downright nasty no matter what you do (I have been a retailer myself in the past.) where there is a clear case such as this I think it warrants warning others.
With this guy it seems if you cross him he will do everything in his power to disable your account and paint you as the crook.
Luckily for me I have all the proof of payment etc as I used my own current account and not an online wire transfer service, in fact as we speak a letter from my bank is on its way confirming the transaction details.

I should add that he had no negative feedback showing at the time I checked his feedback, in fact even now he just shows the negative from me and one neutral from the 23rd oct.
At the time I checked, his feedback rating was 100%
If he had negative feedback I wouldnt have bothered bidding on the item.

He replied to my initial email about payment method very quickly, in fact the next day.. no other mails where sent prior to me winning the item.

As for cost.. I can send a sigma 400mm f5.6 RMSD for £7.75 and clarky can send me a similar size and weight lens from the other side of the planet fully insured for £14.
I knew he was a retailer prior to bidding and accepted that he would use the industry norm method of delivery.. I was wrong in that assumption and wont make that mistake again, but it doesnt excuse his actions since which at the very least prove him to be retaliatory, vindictive and by trying to claim non reciept of payment border on attempted fraud.

Ian, If you think this guy was unjust in giving you a negative then you are within your rights to complain to ebay, however all that will accomplish is mutual withdrawal of feedback from both parties.

I have negative feedback myself which was a retaliation just like yours, TBH I didn't let it worry me, most people could probably suss out what had transpired anyway had they taken the time to read all the comments.

Thanks for the warning, though I would probablly have sussed out this seller as being a bit dodgy anyway.


EDIT........ non payment???? this guy has already sent the item, is he a bit thick I wonder.

As i said an attempt to lock my ebay/paypal account as e bay often suspend all buying or selling on anyones account whilst they investigate a non payment complaint.
Luckily for me my good record has worked in my favour and ebay arent locking my account whilst investigating his complaint.
In such cases any money in an associated paypal account is frozen as well meaning the person who the complaint is made against cant withdraw thier funds from paypal either.

The reason for the non paying bidder bit is that he can have the feedback from a non paying bidder removed from has tally without his neg being removed from yours. I had a trader in the US try that on me.

Kim

I'm not sure how you are reading the feedback score Ian but when I checked, it shows 40 negatives with 1188 positives now, and not ONE as you say. Maybe you are only reading his figures for the last 12 months but on further scrutiny you will find that he has basically been on hiatus since 2004 and started up seriously (?) again in August 2007. If you go down to the bottom of the feedback page and change the default from Show 25/page to Show 200/page you can easily page through all 1413 (7 pages x 200 +13) feedbacks. And now I will repeat what I said earlier - that if you pay attention to all 39 of the other negatives you should then feel very good indeed about how things actually turned out for you, despite your lack of diligence. And, if you really want to feel better than that, why not just forget about your second hand shipping box and MOVE ON?

Drew