Auto focus making people lazy?
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Posted 30/07/2008 - 16:31
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ChrisA wrote:
I expressed an opinion of your picture. Less diplomatically than I might, perhaps, but nevertheless I expressed it.
I'm not interested in proving to you that I'm worthy to have an opinion, and I'm not suggesting that if you like to sharpen pictures beyond realism that it's wrong. Your HDR style is beyond realism too, which is perfectly fine, and as it happens, I quite like it - HDR when it tries to be natural but fails, is awful, I think, but HDR as impressionistic art can be very attractive, and I think some of yours is.
But let's remember where this started - and I'll try and explain why I reacted the way I did.
You posted your tiger picture in the context of using manual focus for creating "the desired result in the circumstances". I don't see how the picture illustrates your point, other than an example of how manual focus can achieve a sharp result.
Except that the sharpness of that result is nothing to do with manual or automatic focus - it was achieved on the computer, and I happen to think it's oversharpened. Just my preference, nothing more. Not wrong, not right, just my preference. And I think you'll find there's nothing in Ben Kanarek's comment that precludes people having preferences.
Hope this clarifies things.
Here we go again! lets not do another session , ill bullet point it -duroo72 wrote:
I do, and I don't know why you keep banging on about this.golfdiesel wrote:
I'd like to quote a couple of lines from the interview with Benjamin Kanarek in the latest Pentax user mag. Page 11, last paragraph.
"My advice to anyone is that when it comes to photography there is no right or wrong. If you want to totally blow out your highlights then do it, there is no-one who can tell you that your picture is overexposed if that was your artistic intention. If they tell you it's wron them I'm sure their work is very pedestrian and utterly boring. You can't hurt anyone by experimenting through photography. I wouldn't give the same advice to a brain surgeon though"
I believe that Bejamin Kanarek is absolutely right with the above, you have to take the pictures that YOU like and process them in the way that YOU think is right.
Couldnt Agree more - hopefully youve read this - you know who you are!!!I'd like to quote a couple of lines from the interview with Benjamin Kanarek in the latest Pentax user mag. Page 11, last paragraph.
"My advice to anyone is that when it comes to photography there is no right or wrong. If you want to totally blow out your highlights then do it, there is no-one who can tell you that your picture is overexposed if that was your artistic intention. If they tell you it's wron them I'm sure their work is very pedestrian and utterly boring. You can't hurt anyone by experimenting through photography. I wouldn't give the same advice to a brain surgeon though"
I believe that Bejamin Kanarek is absolutely right with the above, you have to take the pictures that YOU like and process them in the way that YOU think is right.
I expressed an opinion of your picture. Less diplomatically than I might, perhaps, but nevertheless I expressed it.
I'm not interested in proving to you that I'm worthy to have an opinion, and I'm not suggesting that if you like to sharpen pictures beyond realism that it's wrong. Your HDR style is beyond realism too, which is perfectly fine, and as it happens, I quite like it - HDR when it tries to be natural but fails, is awful, I think, but HDR as impressionistic art can be very attractive, and I think some of yours is.
But let's remember where this started - and I'll try and explain why I reacted the way I did.
You posted your tiger picture in the context of using manual focus for creating "the desired result in the circumstances". I don't see how the picture illustrates your point, other than an example of how manual focus can achieve a sharp result.
Except that the sharpness of that result is nothing to do with manual or automatic focus - it was achieved on the computer, and I happen to think it's oversharpened. Just my preference, nothing more. Not wrong, not right, just my preference. And I think you'll find there's nothing in Ben Kanarek's comment that precludes people having preferences.
Hope this clarifies things.
1. Yes you did suggest my sharpening was wrong - your words " no tiger looks like this. It has fur, not spikes." pretty much sounds like you think its wrong there! your words not mine.
2. You Still havent posted your pics so i can see them , i had a look through the forum and found a few.
3. Yes this tiger was in context with the original discussion posted as if you'd read it fully you would have seen id added this "Hi John,
Thankyou for your polite comments and questions on my image , this is a pseudo Hdr shot from one shot , yes perhaps its a little sharp i think it was the hdr process but im happy with it , the water was this colour mainly because she had amused her viewers by taking a p in it acting dignified and regal during her ablutions - ignorance is bliss eh!!!
What made it a little tricky to capture was the fact she was approx 50 yards away and i was having to shoot her through a perspex viewing window in bright sunlight - im happy with the end result , ive only had my dslr 3 months and im still getting to grips with it as well as pspp and hdr techniques.
Id still like Chrisa's work so we can review it............ "
4. I hope this clarifys things for you now and if all else fails take another look at that superb quote from Golfdiesel's post "golfdiesel wrote:
I'd like to quote a couple of lines from the interview with Benjamin Kanarek in the latest Pentax user mag. Page 11, last paragraph.
"My advice to anyone is that when it comes to photography there is no right or wrong. If you want to totally blow out your highlights then do it, there is no-one who can tell you that your picture is overexposed if that was your artistic intention. If they tell you it's wron them I'm sure their work is very pedestrian and utterly boring. You can't hurt anyone by experimenting through photography. I wouldn't give the same advice to a brain surgeon though"
I believe that Bejamin Kanarek is absolutely right with the above, you have to take the pictures that YOU like and process them in the way that YOU think is right."
5. Finally and let this be the end of this discussion i like your photo -Red Arrows Diamond Nine , its a great shot.
Posted 30/07/2008 - 16:52
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duroo72 wrote:
5. Finally and let this be the end of this discussion i like your photo -Red Arrows Diamond Nine , its a great shot.
It is indeed. And if I might add, a perfect example of: "How to sharpen for web use" 5. Finally and let this be the end of this discussion i like your photo -Red Arrows Diamond Nine , its a great shot.
Martin.
Posted 30/07/2008 - 17:00
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duroo72 wrote:
2. You Still havent posted your pics so i can see them , i had a look through the forum and found a few.
I'm sorry, I'm simply not going trawling through 18 months of posts just to save you the trouble of going to the forum search page, typing 'IMG' into the keywords field and 'ChrisA' into the Author field.2. You Still havent posted your pics so i can see them , i had a look through the forum and found a few.
I expect if you do that, you'll find any number of pictures I've posted at various times and for various purposes.
Some of the pictures probably won't display, since despite our requests to the site owners, we can't edit posts to fix broken links.
And anything I posted before about April would have been edited for display on a very old, dark monitor, so many of them probably look overexposed and noisy on a modern LCD monitor.
Still, feel free to laugh and point. There's plenty to criticise, so fill your boots if you like.
.
Pentax K-3, DA18-135, DA35 F2.4, DA17-70, DA55-300, FA28-200, A50 F1.7, A100 F4 Macro, A400 F5.6, Sigma 10-20 EXDC, 50-500 F4.5-6.3 APO DG OS Samsung flash SEF-54PZF(x2)
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Pentax K-3, DA18-135, DA35 F2.4, DA17-70, DA55-300, FA28-200, A50 F1.7, A100 F4 Macro, A400 F5.6, Sigma 10-20 EXDC, 50-500 F4.5-6.3 APO DG OS Samsung flash SEF-54PZF(x2)
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Posted 30/07/2008 - 18:05
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ChrisA wrote:
For all the criticism I've read about Pentax's allegedly sub-standard AF, I was very happy with its performance over the day.
Interesting, I had often wondered if that would work. I have tried it a couple of times with my K10D + FA80-320 without a lot of success, but the 80-320 isn't the fastest focusing lens in the world and has a habit of hunting. If/when I get my hands on some better long AF glass I'll give it another try.
Mongoose wrote:
If I'm trying to track a bird or plane through the air and the AF loses lock there's a good chance I'll lose the target completely. Using MF I may not always be in perfect focus but I'm always close enough to follow the subject, so I'll get another chance.
One of the things I discovered at Farnborough the other week was that having the AF set to Auto works extremely well for this - the camera can choose an alternate AF point quickly enough to compensate for my inability to track accurately, so it's much better at keeping a lock than when it's forced to use only the centre spot.If I'm trying to track a bird or plane through the air and the AF loses lock there's a good chance I'll lose the target completely. Using MF I may not always be in perfect focus but I'm always close enough to follow the subject, so I'll get another chance.
For all the criticism I've read about Pentax's allegedly sub-standard AF, I was very happy with its performance over the day.
you don't have to be mad to post here
but it does help
but it does help
Posted 30/07/2008 - 22:30
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Duroo72,
You can't be paying much attention to this forum if you have missed Chris's quite splendid shot from Farnborough.
It has received more plaudits than any other picture I have seen posted here, and I have been a member for a while. It is beautifully composed and exposed, full of drama, and the light is wonderful. It's a superb shot in every way. And it's not over-sharpened at all, let alone massively.
To save yourself embarassment, I suggest before you issue any more challenges you take a look around the forum.
G
You can't be paying much attention to this forum if you have missed Chris's quite splendid shot from Farnborough.
It has received more plaudits than any other picture I have seen posted here, and I have been a member for a while. It is beautifully composed and exposed, full of drama, and the light is wonderful. It's a superb shot in every way. And it's not over-sharpened at all, let alone massively.
To save yourself embarassment, I suggest before you issue any more challenges you take a look around the forum.
G
Keywords: Charming, polite, and generally agreeable.
Posted 30/07/2008 - 22:33
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awarner wrote:
George
Like they say if people think you are an idiot keep your mouth shut, otherwise open it and remove all doubt
Pots and kettles.George
Like they say if people think you are an idiot keep your mouth shut, otherwise open it and remove all doubt
G
Keywords: Charming, polite, and generally agreeable.
Posted 30/07/2008 - 22:42
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Utopia Poppy wrote:
I really wanted to say fdcgfdsgfds gsdf, but I thought I'd be honest! For me it depends on the situation. If I'm handheld and want to get the picture fast then I use autofocus (centre or selective point). If I'm doing my flower macros with the tripod then I go manual. To me, it's all down to what you're taking, where, when....
So I opted for both in the end, not fdcgfdsgfds gsdf
Fiona
It's all arabic to me
I really wanted to say fdcgfdsgfds gsdf, but I thought I'd be honest! For me it depends on the situation. If I'm handheld and want to get the picture fast then I use autofocus (centre or selective point). If I'm doing my flower macros with the tripod then I go manual. To me, it's all down to what you're taking, where, when....
So I opted for both in the end, not fdcgfdsgfds gsdf
Fiona
Pentax K7 and K5 and several black tubey things with magnifying glass in that twist around and move in and out - to be honest I am not sure exactly what I have. Will list the proper names one day..
Posted 30/07/2008 - 22:57
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George Lazarette wrote:
You can't be paying much attention to this forum if you have missed Chris's quite splendid shot from Farnborough.
It has received more plaudits than any other picture I have seen posted here, and I have been a member for a while. It is beautifully composed and exposed, full of drama, and the light is wonderful. It's a superb shot in every way. And it's not over-sharpened at all, let alone massively.
You're very kind, George, as are the others that have complimented me on that picture.You can't be paying much attention to this forum if you have missed Chris's quite splendid shot from Farnborough.
It has received more plaudits than any other picture I have seen posted here, and I have been a member for a while. It is beautifully composed and exposed, full of drama, and the light is wonderful. It's a superb shot in every way. And it's not over-sharpened at all, let alone massively.
And I am quite pleased with it, I must say.
But I wouldn't put it down to too much more than, if not beginner's, then intermediate's, luck. I'd spent five hours cursing the weather which made avoiding silhouettes difficult, and then, right at the end of the display, the cloud had thickened up while still allowing enough in the way of gaps for the sun to illuminate it just right.
The best I could do was see the shot coming, and try to frame it right. I took your advice and recropped it slightly.
When I can produce good pictures as reliably as people like Lilly, Prieni, Pschute, Simonkit, and quite a few others, maybe I'll start to feel a bit less like I fluked the occasional good ones.
.
Pentax K-3, DA18-135, DA35 F2.4, DA17-70, DA55-300, FA28-200, A50 F1.7, A100 F4 Macro, A400 F5.6, Sigma 10-20 EXDC, 50-500 F4.5-6.3 APO DG OS Samsung flash SEF-54PZF(x2)
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Pentax K-3, DA18-135, DA35 F2.4, DA17-70, DA55-300, FA28-200, A50 F1.7, A100 F4 Macro, A400 F5.6, Sigma 10-20 EXDC, 50-500 F4.5-6.3 APO DG OS Samsung flash SEF-54PZF(x2)
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Posted 31/07/2008 - 10:00
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ChrisA wrote:
The best I could do was see the shot coming, and try to frame it right. I took your advice and recropped it slightly.
if that's true, then the shot is no fluke, it was played for and got. Do you get every one you play for? probably not, but then I doubt there's a single person here who does.
The best I could do was see the shot coming, and try to frame it right. I took your advice and recropped it slightly.
you don't have to be mad to post here
but it does help
but it does help
Posted 31/07/2008 - 10:36
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Mongoose wrote:
It is true for this one, and it was quite exciting as the moment approached. I took a series of seven as they ran in, one shot every two seconds or so. You can see the series - they run from 15 to 21 in this gallery.ChrisA wrote:
The best I could do was see the shot coming, and try to frame it right. I took your advice and recropped it slightly.
if that's true, then the shot is no fluke, it was played for and got. Do you get every one you play for? probably not, but then I doubt there's a single person here who does.The best I could do was see the shot coming, and try to frame it right. I took your advice and recropped it slightly.
It was helped by the fact that I've watched the Red Arrows so many times over the years that I've got a pretty good idea of what they're going to do.
I took these in 2002 with an ME Super, and a Sigma 28-200 F5.6, and you can see from number seven that it's a very common 'pose' for them. Hopefully I've come on a bit since then
Although as I say, getting it right is still so rare that it feels like a fluke when it happens.
.
Pentax K-3, DA18-135, DA35 F2.4, DA17-70, DA55-300, FA28-200, A50 F1.7, A100 F4 Macro, A400 F5.6, Sigma 10-20 EXDC, 50-500 F4.5-6.3 APO DG OS Samsung flash SEF-54PZF(x2)
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Pentax K-3, DA18-135, DA35 F2.4, DA17-70, DA55-300, FA28-200, A50 F1.7, A100 F4 Macro, A400 F5.6, Sigma 10-20 EXDC, 50-500 F4.5-6.3 APO DG OS Samsung flash SEF-54PZF(x2)
.
Posted 31/07/2008 - 11:51
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I know what you mean, I feel the same way!
you don't have to be mad to post here
but it does help
but it does help
Posted 31/07/2008 - 13:25
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George Lazarette wrote:
Pots and kettles.
G
And now that's out of the way shall we forget the rash comments and look forward to making this site a community where all people feel welcome Pots and kettles.
G
Finally bought the K200D, finances could not reach the K20D but I'm happy with the setup I have.
Now where did I put those AA's
Life's too fast can I get off and walk for a bit?
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Posted 31/07/2008 - 14:27
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George Lazarette wrote:
Duroo72,
You can't be paying much attention to this forum if you have missed Chris's quite splendid shot from Farnborough.
It has received more plaudits than any other picture I have seen posted here, and I have been a member for a while. It is beautifully composed and exposed, full of drama, and the light is wonderful. It's a superb shot in every way. And it's not over-sharpened at all, let alone massively.
To save yourself embarassment, I suggest before you issue any more challenges you take a look around the forum.
G
LoL embaressed?
Duroo72,
You can't be paying much attention to this forum if you have missed Chris's quite splendid shot from Farnborough.
It has received more plaudits than any other picture I have seen posted here, and I have been a member for a while. It is beautifully composed and exposed, full of drama, and the light is wonderful. It's a superb shot in every way. And it's not over-sharpened at all, let alone massively.
To save yourself embarassment, I suggest before you issue any more challenges you take a look around the forum.
G
Posted 31/07/2008 - 14:42
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duroo72 wrote:
LoL embaressed?
Perhaps it is time to move on.....this leads nowhere.LoL embaressed?
Behave guys


4839 posts
19 years
South West London
If I'm trying to track a bird or plane through the air and the AF loses lock there's a good chance I'll lose the target completely. Using MF I may not always be in perfect focus but I'm always close enough to follow the subject, so I'll get another chance.
For all the criticism I've read about Pentax's allegedly sub-standard AF, I was very happy with its performance over the day.
Pentax K-3, DA18-135, DA35 F2.4, DA17-70, DA55-300, FA28-200, A50 F1.7, A100 F4 Macro, A400 F5.6, Sigma 10-20 EXDC, 50-500 F4.5-6.3 APO DG OS Samsung flash SEF-54PZF(x2)
.