always read the small print


hefty1

Link Posted 31/01/2011 - 21:03
Hardgravity wrote:
He's playing on peoples greed for a bargain and bringing ebay into a position of ill repute, surely they should give the buyer his cash back and ban the rip off merchant!!

From an ethical point of view they should. From a business perspective they won't. The seller may be underhand but he's within the letter of the law...

Don wrote:
I would write it off as an art purchase, most artwork goes up in value under the right circumstances...I wonder if the photo's value as art work would go up if the original artist was to die. A horrible, disfiguring, make the evening news type of death.

If I was the buyer I'd be thinking along those lines too
Joining the Q

techno-terminator

Link Posted 31/01/2011 - 21:03
feedback is interesting - this guy normally buys .

He has feedback for 2 sales and both have resulted in negative feedback - this one , one that arrived broken and took a month to arrive .
let the education continue

proud owner of a couple of cameras and a few bits and bobs

Don

Link Posted 31/01/2011 - 21:10
hefty1 wrote:
Hardgravity wrote:
He's playing on peoples greed for a bargain and bringing ebay into a position of ill repute, surely they should give the buyer his cash back and ban the rip off merchant!!

From an ethical point of view they should. From a business perspective they won't. The seller may be underhand but he's within the letter of the law...

Don wrote:
I would write it off as an art purchase, most artwork goes up in value under the right circumstances...I wonder if the photo's value as art work would go up if the original artist was to die. A horrible, disfiguring, make the evening news type of death.

If I was the buyer I'd be thinking along those lines too

If the buyer is really thinking, there will be photos taken at the crime scene up for auction as well.....
Fired many shots. Didn't kill anything.

johnriley

Link Posted 31/01/2011 - 21:22
A little extreme Don and not really something you would contemplate. A complaint to eBay and/or PayPal is the only sensible way to go.

Who knows what the outcome would be, let's hope we never have to find out for ourselves.
Best regards, John

Smeggypants

Link Posted 31/01/2011 - 21:28
You can recall your paypal payment though can't you?
[i]Bodies: 1x K-5IIs, 2x K-5, Sony TX-5, Nokia 808
Lenses: Pentax DA 10-17mm ED(IF) Fish Eye, Pentax DA 14mm f/2.8, Sigma 17-70mm f/2.8, Pentax-A 28mm f/2.8, Sigma 30mm F1.4 EX DC, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.2, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-FA 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.7, Pentax DA* 50-135mm f/2.8, Sigma 135-400mm APO DG, and more ..
Flash: AF-540FGZ, Vivitar 283

johnriley

Link Posted 31/01/2011 - 21:31
A chargeback can be made under some circumstances. The buyer would have to check out the process.
Best regards, John

hefty1

Link Posted 31/01/2011 - 23:20
Smeggypants wrote:
You can recall your paypal payment though can't you?

If you make a chargeback then PayPal will freeze the seller's account until the dispute is resolved. Academic if he's already transferred said money to his bank account - he'll just have a negative balance in the meantime.

To "win" the dispute the buyer would then have to prove that either (a) the item wasn't received or (b) that it was "significantly not as described". If the seller uses a tracked postal service he's covered on the former, and as the listing stated in both title and description that it was a picture for sale he's also covered on the latter.

PayPal/eBay don't like finding in favour of the buyer as they lose their fees so in this case I'm 99.9% certain the buyer's just going to have to suck it up.

The lesson's in the thread title - always read the small print...
Joining the Q

Mike-P

Link Posted 31/01/2011 - 23:46
Although you can apply to have the money transferred to your bank account the second it appears in Paypal it is actually held in limbo for a couple of days by Paypal themselves (which is why it takes 5 days to reach your account). In that time they can recall it and then put a hold on the money until a dispute is resolved.
No equipment list here but thanks for taking an interest. My Flickr

Aero

Link Posted 01/02/2011 - 00:15
I'm not sure that one line of small print at the bottom of a lengthy and comprehensive advertisement would get the seller off the hook against claims of deception. Currys certainly wouldn't be allowed to send you a photo of a washing machine just because they stuck a similar line at the end of their ads. A judge, I suspect, would find that the primary purpose of the advertisement was to deceive and rule accordingly. Small print is used to clarify the details of a transaction and not to fundamentally change an offer that has been laid out clearly beforehand.

Al

hefty1

Link Posted 01/02/2011 - 01:01
Aero wrote:
I'm not sure that one line of small print at the bottom of a lengthy and comprehensive advertisement would get the seller off the hook against claims of deception. Currys certainly wouldn't be allowed to send you a photo of a washing machine just because they stuck a similar line at the end of their ads. A judge, I suspect, would find that the primary purpose of the advertisement was to deceive and rule accordingly. Small print is used to clarify the details of a transaction and not to fundamentally change an offer that has been laid out clearly beforehand.

It's not just the one line though - it's also in the title of the listing. Plus it was listed in Photography/Other rather than in one of the camera categories. Caveat emptor and all that...

Mike-P wrote:
Although you can apply to have the money transferred to your bank account the second it appears in Paypal it is actually held in limbo for a couple of days by Paypal themselves (which is why it takes 5 days to reach your account). In that time they can recall it and then put a hold on the money until a dispute is resolved.

I had someone initiate a chargeback once due to buyer's remorse, mere minutes after I put in the transfer request. The money still arrived in my bank account despite the dispute being live. Maybe PayPal are selective about which funds they hold?
Joining the Q

Don

Link Posted 01/02/2011 - 01:32
johnriley wrote:
A little extreme Don and not really something you would contemplate. A complaint to eBay and/or PayPal is the only sensible way to go.

Who knows what the outcome would be, let's hope we never have to find out for ourselves.

not something I would condone... but definately something I'd joke about!
Fired many shots. Didn't kill anything.

Aero

Link Posted 01/02/2011 - 01:35
I hadn't noticed it in the title (must read the big print too). This may be worth a try. I have some splendid photos of a Minolta S414 and some aged Ensigns. 50 a pop sounds fair. Number available = unlimited. Discount to forum members.

Al

Smeggypants

Link Posted 01/02/2011 - 01:43
hefty1 wrote:
Smeggypants wrote:
You can recall your paypal payment though can't you?

If you make a chargeback then PayPal will freeze the seller's account until the dispute is resolved. Academic if he's already transferred said money to his bank account - he'll just have a negative balance in the meantime.

To "win" the dispute the buyer would then have to prove that either (a) the item wasn't received or (b) that it was "significantly not as described". If the seller uses a tracked postal service he's covered on the former, and as the listing stated in both title and description that it was a picture for sale he's also covered on the latter.

PayPal/eBay don't like finding in favour of the buyer as they lose their fees so in this case I'm 99.9% certain the buyer's just going to have to suck it up.

The lesson's in the thread title - always read the small print...

understood.

I'm now putting a picture of a Nikon D3s up for sale for 500
[i]Bodies: 1x K-5IIs, 2x K-5, Sony TX-5, Nokia 808
Lenses: Pentax DA 10-17mm ED(IF) Fish Eye, Pentax DA 14mm f/2.8, Sigma 17-70mm f/2.8, Pentax-A 28mm f/2.8, Sigma 30mm F1.4 EX DC, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.2, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-FA 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.7, Pentax DA* 50-135mm f/2.8, Sigma 135-400mm APO DG, and more ..
Flash: AF-540FGZ, Vivitar 283

digitalCG

Link Posted 01/02/2011 - 07:08
Perhaps the seller isn't too clever - auction header says 7D picture, photo is of a 7D but the body text gives details for a 5D (picture) - enough of a snag for a genuine dispute perhaps?

Listings like this are great reminders why I don't much like people.
Site|PPG

SmutjeUK

Link Posted 01/02/2011 - 08:11
Well, for all what its worth you should get at the very least the following items as he has included them in his listings of what is included and does not mention a picture of those:
"Included Accessories Battery Charger, Battery Pack, Lithium Battery, Neck Strap, Remote Control, Software, USB Cable, Video Cable"
I am sure that you will get your money back from PayPal as the description is misleading. Also a picture would be 'not fit for purpose' in particular a new and boxed item. I doubt he send the item within a box.
Don't think that you will see this name on eBay again as eBay usually ban sellers like him.
The other part I was stumbling on is:
"Digital Zoom Without Digital Zoom"
How stupid can you be as a buyer if you read through it to buy from him with this kind of description anyway without even asking a single question?
It proves again that if buying from eBay you have to read everything from the top to the bottom and it should have rang some bells when it says in the header 7D but in the description 5D.
Postage and Packing would raise questions as well. 10 Next day and 10 24h courier. Bit strange that one, would have expected two different prices or delivery methods but both are very similar.
All in all, no matter how good a bargain I would stay away and even would contemplate to report the item as everything screams 'SCAM' to me.
Kind regards
SmutjeUK

It's nice to be nice!

Pentax K-5 with D-GB4 Grip, to many lenses to mention by now (serious LBA by now), TC's, Lowepro Slingshot 300 AW, Manfrotto 028 & Redsnapper RS-283 with various Heads plus various Camera Clamps (I collect them). Pentax AF 360FGZ, Pentax AF 240FT, several Metz 45 CT-1 & 5 with stands and 'Blow Up' Soft Boxes, Flash Triggers, and various Macro gear.
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