85mm Portrait Philosophy

...not on my FA* lenses - both my FA*80-200 and my surplus FA*85 have been offered at what they cost me

Lenny, Perhaps we should all invest in Pentax FA lenses rather putting out money into banks, shares and mortgages.

What little money I have in the bank is earning nothing theses days.

I`m with John on the 70/2.4 DA Limited but understand your desire to opt for a FF lens. I don't buy the argument that modern Sigma lenses are any less capable or of lesser build quality than OEM offerings (my experience with Sigma has been extremely good) so that's what I'd opt for....except I don't trust cameras to autofocus at f1.4 so I'd save a lot of cash and go for the Samyang variants (which I acknowledge may be more risky than a Pentax lens). Of the FF Pentax offerings, clearly the 77 should be considered.

I thought people would have been more vocal about the FA 85 f/1.4 pushing it qualities as it has such a following, perhaps the Sigma 85 f/1.4 is as good or better?

The Sigma would appear to be the logical choice, but my heart likes the Pentax FA 86.

This is an interesting thread as I am looking at getting a dedicated Portrait lens of around this focal length.
I am afraid that I disagree with John that "why an 85mm when a 55mm will give a similar angle of view" That may be the case, but a 55mm is still a 55mm, and an 85mm is 85mm and will act as such. Even if you have to stand further back,I would much prefer a lens in the 70-90 range for portraits, they have less distortion and are far more flattering for portraits.

So in the end, there are more that just the pair as mentioned by the OP for this use.
FA*85mm F1.4 - I would love to have this lens, but finding one for me is like gold dust. Seeing shots taken with it on the likes of Flickr make me drool.
Sigma 85mm F1.4 - Actually, due to its control for digital, it is a better lens than the FA*, but then again it is third party and like Siggys "can" have issues with colour rendition and reliability.
Okay the others:-
FA 77mm F1.8 - I always thought that the FA* was the ultimate, but actually it maybe this one looking at the results.
Samyang 85mm F1.4 - I have played with this and almost bought it, but held back. Why? It is manual only and when you wear glasses that is an issue, and secondly, it just is not a tactile delight for some reason.....Optically it is well up there and if you don't need AF, a worthy alternative.
DA 70mm Limited - This is another one I am seriously considering, nice and small but not as fast. Personally I think the bokeh on the SMC version is too fussy, but maybe the HD version is better for this. Downside it is not FF capable
Tamron 90mm macro - I have a really old F2.5 version, and it is great for portraits, maybe too good, as it is VERY sharp. No AF though so very slow to use for me. The AF version will be better, but won't give you that shallow DOF of the others.

Will be interesting what others think as I am in the market next month for a dedicated portrait lens and both the 70mm and 77mm are on the shortlist, as is the Sigma.

I still shoot film (mostly with manual focus bodies), as such I'm slowly acquiring FA lenses (I need FF coverage & aperture rings) so I can move on my older manual focus glass. That's the theory anyway...

I still want AF on my K-5 and the FAs feel much smoother than my Fs when manual focusing. Whilst I agree that independents make very competitive, (and in some cases unique) lenses, my preference is to stick to Pentax ones. My only AF Sigma lens (old 70-300 APO Super) focuses the 'wrong' way (both on the focus ring and at the screw-drive) which is just one reason I'd stick with Pentax. Sigma used to make manual focus lenses that matched each manufacturers focus direction (called 'synchro-focus'), my 400/5.6 APO is such a lens.

Now back to this thread, an FA*85/1.4 or the FA Ltd 77mm? Tough choice, I'd go for the 85mm if I could find one, probably - but both are a dream - I'd probably make do with an SMC-Tak 85/1.8 (some of my film bodies are screw mount).

John.

Iain I just replied to your PM about the HD 70.

The HD 70 has better contrast than the original 70 Ltd and is very similar to the FA 77 IQ wise, but I think the FA 77 is just a tad better.

The FA* 85mm just creates superb images and the bokah is the best I have seen in Pentax land. The Sigma looks very promising and from what I have seen looks as good as the FA* 85mm perhaps slightly better?

The FA* 85 seem to be going for between £700 and £850, but as they are often from Japan or the USA your looking at about £1000 with Tax and import fees. So I guess the Sigma is the logical option and cheaper one. I have a FA* 80mm -200mm which I love, some of my best equine shots have been taken with this glass, so I do like the FA* lenses, but not the prices.

I personally just love the look you get with an 85mm and the FA and the Sigma are both FF too.

What was it that made you choose the Pentax 80-200 instead of the Sigma 70-200? Most of the same arguments apply to this comparison too.

I think many FA* lens owners are no longer particularly vocal when these questions get asked because they accept that the modern equivalents are as good (or better) in many ways, but once you've owned a few FA*'s I suspect that many people just stick with them - I guess you wont part with your FA*80-200 anytime soon ?

The FA* 80-200mm was a £2000 lens of the highest calibre when it was new, so I don't think I'd be parting with it either!

I had the Sigma and swapped it for the FA77 1.8 ltd.
No contest! the Sigma was too big (fine for weddings, everywhere else it just got left at home) and the focus seemed to be a bit unreliable. At the time I put that down to me, but the 77 has no such issues - it's a little gem.
Sigma will loose money instantly, so an expensive choice potentially.
With the Sigma, my photographs didn't improve; with the 77 they instantly stepped up to a different level - the same way that the K5IIs changed the game in terms of sharpness.
No experience of the FA 85.

John, LennyBloke, It took both Fran and I a long time to find two FA* 80-200mm that were in mint condition and if I recall correctly we paid £750 for one and £850 for the other, but this did include tax and import charges from Japan.

We have had them about 10 months now and thay have been used at most of the major 3* equestrian events from Chtsworth, Bramham, Burley & Osberton, they are just superb, but very heavy. They very rarely come up for sale and no doubt people will say they are not as good as whatever they use, but for me, its one lens i will never part with.

Why did i choose the FA* 80-200mm instead of the Sigma 70-200? Two reasons, the images I have seen taken with the FA* 80-200mm and to be different. When we first got a press pass for Chatsworth we were definitely the underdogs because we were not shooting Canon or Nikon. However, I met a tog who shoots for various broadsheets and PR companies who learnt photography as a student with Pentax, he was surprised by the quality of the K5lls images and was interested in the camera, we got talking and he really helped me out providing me with info about submitting images and things to look out for image wise that might sell. So from that day, I decided to focus on the kit I had and be proud of what i could achieve with it. So in a way with the huge Pentax lens hood on the FA*80-200mm it made a lot of other togs look puzzled when we were photographing. when we started to get a few commissions together with editorial & PR images published, a lot of togs started talking to us as if we had been accepted and never made any negative comments about Pentax, we'll not to our faces. I guess the thing i am learning, is work with kit that works for you, your needs and requirements.
Yes I would like a FF body, but I would rather it be a Pentax, because I like the layout and feel of the camera, I can virtually use the controls on a K5/ K3 without having to keep looking at the camera. I still don;t understand some of the decisions Pentax / Ricoh make, and a few times have thought about moving to another brand, but i guess i have become an addict to Pentax and don't want to quit or give up the habit.

I believe DA70 is perfectly fullframe capable .... based on some test shots on film SLR .....no vignetting whatsoever....

Thats good to hear Kingfisher.

Gareth, I love that story. It really makes you think in a positive way.
I have found that when using my Pentax kit, I get the following:-

1. People who don't use cameras or know brands - "Thats a nice camera very impressive, Must cost a lot"
2. Pros - "Nice to see Pentax still around, I used to use Pentax, they are a good make"
3. Enthusiasts - "What, you are using Pentax, you should get proper stuff like my CaNikon" "Toy camera" "There are a lot more lenses you can get with my CaNikon than your Pentax (although the persons in question probably only have 2 lenses at most, the kit zoom being one of them)"