360° feedback

How about you show us the way then Ken and post an image, include a short analysis of your own work and invite the critics.

The critics can introduce themselves in a separate thread giving us a quick run down of why they feel qualified to provide criticism and you can invite whoever from the critics thread to comment by PM. Or you can have open criticism from all in the critics thread.

They can either accept or decline.

Bob's your uncle. You get the incisive criticism you need. The hoypoloi can be excluded. The critics can put their prowess on display.

I'm as much against vacuous non-specific comments as anyone else, and probably more so than many.

However, I don't much like the idea of people having to justify their qualification to offer critique.

AFAIC, the only qualification required to comment on a photo is to have an opinion, and to be prepared to articulate it. If someone then doesn't like that opinion, they have the freedom to ignore it.

To suggest that people have to somehow demonstrate their qualification, before their view becomes acceptable, makes no sense to me on two counts:

One is obvious - you don't have to be a chicken to know that an egg's bad. I hate my own photos most of all, since most of them are rubbish and I know perfectly well why. If I don't post them, does that make me less qualified to comment on others'?

The other is perhaps less obvious: if someone is incapable of evaluating someone's critique of their image without first believing that the critic is somehow qualified, that critique is worthless. By which I mean, that if you can judge the critic, you can probably judge your own photos at least as well as your critic can.

Personally, I'm just as interested in hearing a child's opinion of my pictures as I am a pro's. They'll see different things, and I can choose to agree or disagree with either.

I fully aggree - I also find it usefull to not just listen to photographers. Best example, are my kids - what they say about my photos is often so much inspiring me. These are typically no technicaldetails but focusing on things like mood, atmosphere etc.

So is the general idea: Don't comment on a photograph unless it is to say how it can be improved, because you are some sort of expert.
What if you just like it for some reason maybe not apparent to anyone else, even if it isn't all that "good"

Regards

I don't think that's necessary. If you can articulate why you don't like it, the things you'd rather were different will be apparent.

If the reason you like it isn't apparent to other people, that's all the more reason to say why you do. Then other people might see what you're seeing, and be enriched as a result.

It's people claiming that they themselves don't know / can't describe / what it is they like or don't like about a shot, that's the real issue.

To me that just says they can't be bothered.

Comment however you please. It would be sad if simply expressing your liking for a shot came to be frowned upon. But more in depth commenting is definitely to be encouraged.

To be honest, the only thing that annoys me more than the so-called vacuous 'nice shot' comments, is pros who take it all so damn seriously

But then, who wants to look at 'commercial' work anyway

The point about the critics thread is to allow anybody to volunteer. No qualification, photographic talent required. All they have to say is "look at my record" demonstrating the ability at artistic/photographic criticism. We respect people because they demonstrate talent, e.g. Dr O, Cabstar. We respect people because they have learning e.g. ... I can't give an example of somebody here who has a degree (or better) in art or photography, I'm sure they will volunteer themselves.

And we have the self-appointed. There's nothing to stop anybody appointing themselves.

The point of the critics thread is to allow them to volunteer for the more in-depth comments people are requesting.

The point of asking them, is to keep out punters with "platitudes" that seem to irk may of you (I'll exclude myself being an "inclusionist" and thinking this is not a photography site it's a Pentax site.)

If you want standard criticism just post and say so in open forum. I thought the point of this thread there was a set of people who want to stop the platitudes and have more in depth and considered opinions. i.e. Setting up a critical clique within the general forum.

Instead of talking about it why don't some of you try it? There's nothing to loose, is there?

I may have missed several pages Doug - I thought tyronet200's post was a general one about all images on the forum.

As usual there are probably several discussions going on at once

Yes, as usual there are

Axel might distil what he wants and get it back on track (or find there's nothing here)

I'm sure I;m for something and against something else but what ....?

Anybody is free to critique in as much detail as they like, but sometimes get snapped back at when the OP takes offence. This then puts people off.

If anyone wants in depth critique, then if they say so then someone may well provide it.

If I was to think of one thing that would improve a lot of images though I think it would be attention to the sharpening technique used. Some images are looking quite soft and even at 800 pixels wide they should be crisper. It may be a matter of matching the sharpening to the image size. It will not be the same amount that we need for a print.

Also, resize before uploading to Photobucket or wherever and the result will be better.

Oh i destilled a lot - and as I mentioned in one of my last threads - I actually have the feeling that I already receive different kind of feedback and appreciate this a lot. The self-dynamic of threads is always very exciting. starting with the question, if it makes sense to provide also some more critical feedback instead of saying nothing and perhaps do this in a seperate category now has more become a discussion of feedback itself.... but I like this development as well

OK, I haven't read the entire thread, so forgive me if I'm repeating something already mentioned.
I have to agree with the quote above. I used to comment a lot more than I do now. It is a good habit I was taught on here. I must get back into the habit!
Two things are to be gained by commenting (IMHO).
(a) The poster can learn (or not, as they choose) what people like to see in a shot, and create better shots.
(b) I found that by looking more critically at other's images it assisted in my creating better shots. I assume because it made me look more critically through the viewfinder.

Ok, I like this idea, we can see if it will work and I'm willing to stick my head above the parapet but it won't be up until late tonight or early tomorrow, I'm taking a break from a shoot at the moment.

I agree with Father Ted also Blythman's comments.

On a more humorous note I posted a photo (snap) in My Photos about which I can tell all and sundry: "I have a photograph on the forum which has left everyone speechless" BoomBoom Isn't photography fun

Regards

+1

I think that advice would improve your Berwick Holiday shot, Stan!