2 photos Of my friend Jenna Using natural light with the K10

Hi all

I shot these two pictures today of Jenna my friend. It is the first time she has posed and did very well. I then edited them in PS to create a soft portrait look around the face. I think the lighting was quite nice in the shade. Let me know what you think. Cheers guys









Cheers Pete

Well. Let me say first of all that so far, Pete, I've tried to be constructive.

I've attempted to offer some form of defence from the onslaught of George's accurate but somewhat biting comments.

But in all honesty, I get the feeling that you're young and enthusiastic, with more of an inclination to talk than listen, do rather than think, and press that shutter release rather than hold back and actually think about what the camera's pointing at.

In isolation, none of these things is bad. But I don't get the impression that you're learning a great deal from the attempts of people here to give honest feedback at the same time as encouraging you to really get into this photography thing that you seem to be so excited about.

FWIW, I think she's a nice looking girl, in a top that is entirely inappropriate for outdoor portrait photography. It has a fluffy, dressing-gown look about it that would be great in a bathroom, but to my mind, looks silly out in a forest.

In the second shot, its crumpled look is entirely unflattering, and it's disrespectful to your model to display her in public like that. You add insult to injury with the random sunlit top-of-head effect.

I would suggest, that, rather than posting a couple of shots like this, you take a hundred or so, think carefully about every one, choose the best five, discuss them carefully with the model herself (since she's your friend, not your employee), and see what she thinks.

Then, when you have a few shots that you and she feel truly capture something special, with backgrounds that don't distract or annoy, post them for critique. And maybe preface your post with your own, considered opinion of as much about the images that you feel able to assess.

I've seen students in my college class turning in worse, and the year is almost over.

The choice in model is good.

the light is nice.

a little more attention to detials, and background, and this could really turn out nice.

clearly some kind of diffuser or scrim over the model's head in the second shot would fix the highlight in her hair.

I expect harsh words when people critique my stuff.
It comes with calling yourself a "Pro".

those are shots many a non pro would find quite satisfying.

I hope this board doesn't turn into one of "those" boards.....

no offence intened, to the other respected posters, your opinions are valid, and were solicited, but don't you think it's possible that when you swat a mosquito with a sledgehammer, you may bruise yourself in the process?

Don, I agree with almost EVERYTHING you say especially;

This whole forum has changed in the last few months with quite a few members (especially new ones) posting pictures more and more, and seemingly for approval rather than for actual critique. I am not against this per se but I have seen this go sour on other forums where the posters get much more than they bargained for and it is usually other members that take great exception to the response the poster gets and it turns into a crapfest. I think a lot of the problem lies with the opinions expressed are usually biased towards how the person posting is perceived as to whether they are just boasting and looking for an "attaboy" or whether they are honestly looking for advice.

If you are going to ask for critique, first you must grow about 3 more inches of skin thickness. Secondly, if somebody gives their honest brutal opinion, the poster will learn nothing if the poster's "friends" slams the critiquer. The same goes for John Riley's excellent insight that gratuitous compliments are meaningless as well. When either of those conditions happens, nothing is gained by the poster looking for an honest critique and trying to learn from it. It is up to the poster to determine what opinions are valid and which are not, not.

(No inflection intended on you Don - very valid points, and no inflection on you ChrisA - that is your opinion and IMO very valid too.)

Quite a few months ago a question was posed as to our opinions of having a new category made for photo critiques. I voted NO at the time because I have seen that category turn ugly on other forums and did not want to see this great forum turn into that. Slowly photos have started to be posted for critique (or otherwise) in several categories and that brings up another point. Why are most photos submitted for critique under the Digital SLR category just because the member owns a digital SLR? Unless it is specific to the PENTAX Digital SLR topic shouldn't it presently be posted under the General Chat category? In fact, many posts lately seem to be mis-categorized. I remember not long ago when the moderators would move posts to the correct category. What happened to that? I would officially like to change my vote for making a Photo Critique category to a YES so I can skip all these daily pleas for approval and if I want to read about PENTAX Digital SLRs or Digital Chat that is all I will find in those categories.

Another thing, shouldn't a rule be made about how big a photo can be pasted into a post so we don't have to scroll back and forth to read the text on topics with huge pictures included?

This forum is still fantastic but I would sure like to see it mature into more high quality posts like the one Ben made about "Getting into my Biz". Tons of interesting and intelligent information posted there and that beats all this quibbling over "snapshots" and bad magazine reviews. I think that people that don't have the confidence in their skills should post their photos for critique elsewhere like; www.photo.net or http://www.ephotozine.com/gallery/critiquegallery.cfm because usually the photo really has nothing to do with PENTAX specifically does it?

My opinion anyway.

Regards

Drew

ePHOTOzine is ideal for feedback and critiques and usually very constructive.

Posting pictures here is OK as well, but the forum is mainly a place for discussion and this is where it is especially useful and unique.

Now that the K10D is making waves and getting more pentax Users out there it's to be expected that more people will post and a wider variety of viewpoints will be found.

However, courtesy is always a good thing.

I agree with Drew that if photographs are posted for comment rather than to assist in the understanding of the message (e.g. a photograph of an unusual Pentax lens) then they should go into a separate Photo Critique section.

Thanks Chris for the comments,

I must admit I was a bit took back by how bad you thought the shots were but thats OK I can learn from mistakes hopefully. I did spot the sun light on the head on the one shot and also the pink top was an issue but I couldnt really ask the poor girl to go back home and change. Chris what colour would you suggest or colour combination ???
I must mention that I have been a critic to myself and I am a bit of a perfectionist but it's what you are trying to perfect that can be the stumbling point.

This proves I really know very very little about photography and heaps to learn but I am listening to all your comments. Please bare in mind this is only the third time every in less than a week I have shot outside attemting portarits. I suppose from your comments it shows.

I have only been learning DSLR photography since December (self taught) and before then did not even know what apeture was etc..I tend to shot apeture priority on 95% of photos now.

Sometimes It can be very difficult to put every thing you have been told into practice. It's only when I back to the PC I think I should have done this or should of done that. Thank God for digital. Practice is the name of the game.

If anyone has time and wants to edit the shots do feel free or let me know what I should have done to improve the results.

My cousin said something interesting the other day that sometimes, especially season photographers they look more at the technical side of the shot ie: whats right/wrong exposure, lighting etc.. etc.. instead of the actual image itself and whether its is good image in the sense of what you are actually looking at. I think being a newbie I kind of know what he means.

I have seen some images here and other forums and In my own opinion they were not were not very good but they have received good feed back. This shows for sure beauty is in the eye of the beholder and it is a good job we all have different opinions otherwise it would be a dull world.

Does anyone like marmite I do

Pete

Pete, I'll say one thing for you, you take criticism incredibly well!!

I'm humbled by the way you can take it on the chin, come back for more, and still stay so good-humoured.

So respect to you for that.

Another thing - I'm not an expert, not a pro, and my opinions of stuff I see are no more than that - opinions.

Point taken. I think in that situation rather than including the top, I'd have gone for a more close up shot of her face, so that as much of the top as possible was excluded. But if you're going to keep the top in shot, it needs to lie smoothly on her, so that it doesn't spoil the way she looks, and doesn't act as a distraction.

I'd also have ensured that the background was completely out of focus so that more attention was drawn to her. She has lovely skin, AFAICT from the two shots you posted, and the quality of soft light on skin can be very captivating.

Very true. Maybe pick one thing to practise at a time, and concentrate on that, rather than try and do a lot in one session. Practise seeing, though rather than just looking.

Hi Pete,

a very pretty girl. A couple of things to watch out for though.. in the first shot, you seem to have a very limited DoF (IIRC, you've got a 50 1.7). It looks as though you've chosen to focus on her right eye, which (and my eyes aren't what they used to be) has thrown her left out of focus slightly, and her nose more noticeably so. As you say your using Av more now, try the shots at different apertures, and see which come out better. If nothing else, you really need both eyes in sharp focus for a shot like this, as that is the main feature of any portrait, even if the nose and ears go a little softer.

The other point I'd say, and both points are purely constructive.. is to have a good look at the detail in the shots. You have a couple of strands of hair going over the eye in each. In the first, just moving it a little to her left, and it would frame the eye nicely, in the second, it needs moving out completely.

Don's mentioned the sun on her hair in the second shot, and just having here move back or forward a few inches, to either light up more of it, or to throw it into shadow, and it would cure that.

Apart from that.. I personally don't mind a few more pictures of your friend gracing these boards..

Oh, one final thought.. "say cheese" is as pertinent now as it ever was.. A nice smile in the first, but gone in the second.

Cheers

Liam

Ok Guys

I have just spent 1/2 hour in PS and tried to rectify your views.

Changed top colour, amended DOF, got rid of the sunlight on the hair (cloning) and finally cropped.

I think the top of the head may be a bit to blurred now but a bit more effort I good a lot better I know

Let me know what you think

Pete

SORRY SORRY QUICK EDIT NEED TO CHANGE TOP COLOUR !!! SECOND PICTURE UNDERNEATH




RE EDITED VERSION WITH COLOUR TOP CHANGE BELOW

Hi Drew,

my tuppence worth, as someone who posts the occasional photo, is that as it's a photography forum, it's nice to see photos here.

You're correct in point out the size of some, and it is a little irksome to have to keep scrolling across to read the text (I post small..ish images BTW) but some of the images that are posted here have been truly incredible. I rarely follow links out of the forum, and probably miss many equally good images because of this, so it's nice to see them here.

I'd be all in favour of a critique section, or simply a gallery board.. I don't always want to comment on people's shots, but just look at them.

I certainly think that to be offered constructive criticism, and to offer advice, we have to be able to see what been taken. The key word is "constructive". Just having a place to heap praise on a poster, if their image is particularly good, would be nice.. nothing wrong with that either..

At the end of the day, it's all about photography, and somewhere in there, there'll undoubtedly be photographs. It's always nice to have your contemoraries/peers say something nice about the work you've done.. especially in a nice friendly forum like this, where you respect the opinion of others, whether beginner or pro..

Cheers

Liam

Go and get the girl and take more photos Pete.. There's only so much you can do in PS, and what you've done has made the shot worse, because the editing is immediately obvious..

Just because you are able to do a little bit of PP with a digital image, doesn't necessarily mean that you can change an OKish photo into a stunning one.. take it properly first time around...

To attempt what you have tried to do to the photo, and to do it well, requires an inordinate amount of skill and patience, that would be beyond the realms of probably all but one or two posters here, and they have years of digital imaging experience behind them. It'll take more than 30 minutes as well. I spent the better part of a week retouching a photo, pixel by pixel (a scanned film original, of a family scene, that had deteriorated over 50 years) and it still wasn't 100%, so don't feel bad about it..

I mean that in the nicest way as well.

Cheers

Liam

Photo*ist said:
Point taken. Wise to bite ones tongue.
I'm just glad that when things do occasionally flare up, it never goes seem to get really ugly around here!
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Thanks Liam

I know what you mean maybe best left alone. I see the bad editing again. Never mind we will have to try again LOL

but Its too Cold today maybe next week

Pete

Just as an idea Pete, if you want people to have a look at your images and edit them you would be better off posting the originals as well as your edited versions because more constructive work can be done with an image that is unprocessed.

Regards

Carl