K10D sharpness still raging (will it ever be put to bed)

Hi All

I have decided to start this thread regarding the sharpness output on jpegs of the Pentax K10D. It seems to be an on going issue in reviews yet again as I discovered. today when I visited W H Smiths and decided to have a look through a few April editions magazines. Once more the issue of sharpness has come to the fore as a negative comment.

I realise this has been discussed on the this forum a few times but it seem as though the negativity will not go away in monthly reviews by the so called experts testing our beloved K10D.

It would appear this is the only major bad point on the camera but why are people making it into a big thing ? I ask myself what settings are they using ? and more important what lenses, from what I can gather this is a major factor in the equation. Please quote me if I am wrong.

Why don’t reviewers ever say Canon cameras tend to be to sharp with its images and post this as negative point about that?

Another statement is the Samsung Gx10 essentially the same camera produces sharper jpegs according to certain side by side comparisons. Is this down to the cameras own firmware/software or something else I ask??

To many people the issue of sharpness is not really an issue at all. I suppose most people who look at a photo like to see crisp sharp images myself included but this depends on the type of shot i.e.: landscape or portraits.

I realise images can be edited in Photoshop or silkypix etc.. but does this produce sharper images than the cameras own settings without losing overall quality after re saving a jpeg. Perhaps someone can answer this in detail??

Below is an image I posted in another thread which me shows the K10d can produce unbelievably sharp images from a very inexpensive lens. The only problem is verifying the authenticity of this image. Someone asked why it showed the f as 0 and focal length as 0 well I can verify my camera did the same with a old manual lens so at least that has answer that issue. If anyone can get a sharper image than that then best of look I say.

Some as also said on this forum that pentax have explained the softness/sharpness is best left in the hands of the photographer. I would like to read this statement from Pentax so if anyone can give us all a link we would be grateful.

Please let me have all your thoughts and opinions over this on going debate

Pete

Pete,

The criticism over JPG sharpness is usually levelled at Pentax images by . . . Canon users. Canon are well known for too much in-camera sharpening. Switch to RAW (PEF or DNG), no problem.

Pentax are right, in my opinion, to leave the final creativity step to the photographer.

Regards,

Pardon the short reply..But...DITTO!

It won't be put to bed if people keep dragging the subject up again.

G

George the trouble is it's in the know all the time recently anyway which is what annoyed me again today when I read yet another magazine article over this matter.

The reason for my bringing it into the forum again is because I think if people are considering buying the K10d they should not be put off by magazine reviews and should read these threads by people who have purchased the camera and are using it regularly with good lenses and technique. This in my opinion can show what it can really produce by both good and novice photographers. This to me is far better than any microscopic lab testing.

I know of one member Lilly is her name who decided on the K10d as a result of imformation recieved here.

The proofs in the pudding

Pete

Just been reading DPreview pentax forum and this issue is ripe their. There are however some interesting comments for and against.

Personally, I rely on my own opinions about what is pleasing to me. I certainly don't want to see this forum reduced to that of DPReview.

If you haven't learned yet, DPReviewers are very pro Canon & Nikon and anti-Pentax. Take what you read there with a pinch of salt and preferably just link to DPReview articles rather than bring them here. Anybody remotely interested will follow the link rather than debate the same issue twice.

You see, we are already pro-Pentax here. Perhaps you should air your views about DPReview threads in their forum. Just a thought.

Peter

Sorry but the reviews I have been reading are from Pentax users in Dpreview not canon and nikon users.
Pete

I'm just about to post a technical thread on the subject of sharpening...

Low in camera sharpening was on of THE main requests before the *ist-D came out - and Pentax didn't disappoint. I'd rather have control over it all

The only thing that might be worth changing is the default setting for the cameras. Perhaps they should default to the bright image with a touch of sharpening so all these "reviewers" can cope

(Entering school teacher mode )
Actually it's not The proof of the pudding is in the eating...

...but then you can't take a horse to the spilt milk off the duck's back and make it put the table on the other foot. (Apologies to forum members from other countries who might not have a clue what I'm talking about! LOL!)

Matt

LOL Matt good one mate

Matt when are you posting this technical thread can’t wait !!

One thing I can't understand is why oh why did pentax not see this same issue coming before releasing the K10D if they had same gripes with reviews on the ist ?? It's simple, have the inbuilt settings to suit all stages from really soft to really sharp.

I appreciate people are saying leave the sharpening to post editing but lets face it I think most people in general prefer crisp sharp images and don't want to mess about in silkypix or PS. Not everyone I know before you spit at me, but the majority.

The reason I say this is because you rarely here folk complaining images are to sharp when they open their shots on the PC or print them. I think most people would look at an image and say " that’s a fantastic shot nice and sharp" NOT "that’s an nice image but it's to sharp" If you see what I mean.

The only people who seem to spot the image being to sharp or soft are keen/expert or pro photographers who know what they are looking for.

Take a wedding shot to the bride/groom or family and I bet 9 times out of ten if they were shown two identical pictures side by side they will choose the sharper of the two unless they asked for a soft portrait image before hand. This is because our human eyes are meant to see things as clearly and in focus as possible. Another example is go for an eye test and it is obvious you look for the clearest/sharpest results before having your lenses fitted.

Why oh why don't pentax listen to the majority not the minority of its customers when it comes to a very important final result.

I don’t mind post editing jpegs to get them a little shaper but when you do so and save them it decreases the image quality. It is ok saying shoot RAW but this slows things down a lot and produces large files etc..

Pete

How do you know a majority of Pentax owners are complaining?

There are several hundred thousand Pentax DSLRs out there. The "soft-focus" whingers on DPReview number perhaps twenty.

I wouldn't call that a majority.

Just remember that empty vessels make the most sound.

G

It's not the saving that degrades the IQ per-se. You should use "Save As" and pick a high value for the compression (something like 90 to 95). You'll end up with a larger JPG file than the original because it has more data.

Golden rule of image editing: Never overwrite your original file (whether that's JPG or RAW)

(Hint: you won't get a pro saving in JPG. They'll use TIFF, and save intermediate files in PSD layered format. They are big, but that's what you get for 10 mega pixel!)

Article/thread on sharpening is here: https://www.pentaxuser.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4097

Matt

There you go again George Comments.

I'll reiterate what I have said,

This IS A KNOWN issue. Magazine reviews by pro’s and other sources can’t all be wrong otherwise there would be no need to even mention the matter if it were not the case.

I am simply looking for answers although I appreciate it will probably never get resolved.

It is what it is

Matt I always save a new file normally jpeg 100% but was not aware a jpeg could be saved a Tiff.

Cheers

Comparing the total number of Pentax DSLRs out there with the number that post on one specific forum about one specific topic, and then going on to use that comparison to say anything at all about what constitutes a majority is just a nonsense.

It may be true that the majority of Pentax DSLR users are perfectly happy with the default JPG sharpness, or it may not.

But rather than seizing on the one questionable assertion in Pete's post to make another tiringly snide remark:

, it would have been nice to address the rest of his post, since I thought he made some very relevant points, and it does seem to be true that the issue of sharpness is one raised as a criticism, whether justified or not, of Pentax cameras.

If those posting on DPReview really are the devil incarnate, as some would have you believe, there's nothing wrong to my mind in having a balanced discussion about sharpness here.