We can certainly agree there

Thanks for taking a look David, much appreciated.


Thanks also for your interest in the shots! I throroughly recommend organising your image collection - with digital now we have so many possibilities for managing our workflow, but the risk of data loss or just 'losing track' of things is high also.

I am not keen here to re-light any 'Lightroom vs the rest' type of debates! I am not a LR user, but many others are. LR is an 'all-in-one' image managment and editing solution - it has a 'catalog' (a database), includes the Adobe Camera RAW plugin for RAW file conversion, and has an extensive 'parametric image editor', which uses metadata records of adjustment settings to continue a non-destructive edit chain throughout.

For many, thats all you need! I myself take a pick 'n mix approach. I have an established cataloge with another program, imatch (www.photools.com), so don't need the organising aspects of LR. And I have enjoyed trying out other software for image edits, and I choose certain types of edits from each program that I find they are particularly good at. I use Lightzone, Sagelight 4.0, Helicon Filter, and Photoshop Plugins from Topaz Labs (DeNoise & Details). I use PS Elements for anything needing layers and final cropping, resizing and saving to JPEG.

I find it quite extraordinary that what is surely one of the key accessories provided by Pentax for their top of range models can be so disregarded, and here of all places amongst the most 'serious' and committed users. The unit itself is very special - perfectly moulded to extend the dimensions of the camera in a completely natural way. The two make one, you could say.

And if suddenly the square format is being propelling to the tops of the wish-lists, then there's going to be lots of dissapointed people when the company only put out a new APS-C and / or 'FF' model!

We build up a kind of tactile memory for these things, which becomes natural over time - changes therefore feel unatural initially unless you persist and re-develop that tactile memory. For me, the camera with grip is the norm, thats what feels right. If I use the K7 without the grip now it feels like a silly little thing, toy-like!

I am suggesting that people consider the potental benefits 'on paper', and give it time to allow the new 'tactile memory' to develop. That then creates a new norm.

Regarding the whole battery grip vs square format argument ....

Alan, for now the benefits you claim for the square format are hypothetical to us - we don't have it - I am talking about the advantages of the grip over and above the camera on its own that I do have (a K7 - grip and handling etc are the same as K5 also). If we do get then get a chance one day to comapre the features / handling of a square format Pentax DSLR with an APS-C or FF one and try out the grips, then we could ressurrect this argument. Until then its only guesswork.

I am recomending people try out the option we do actually have at the moment and consider the benefits I have listed.

The preference for a particular feel and weight is obviously personal, but our responses to a change in this respect depends on where we have come from (what we have used before). In my case I did use a film SLR from another maker which was small, but had an attachable grip which included a small tripod built in - this added up to a more substantial feel and improved handling I found.

Same with the K7, but the BG-4 includes more functional benefits. I think the two battery plus AA option is excellent for extended trips, or maybe when camping. You might have limited opportuities to plug in the charger, and so the AAs are there to get you through. And you can usually find AAs to buy all arouind the world in quite isolated places.

Thanks for looking at these John. I'll give that a try... now, I think if I hold down the Ctrl key while moving the slider that will adjust saturation in individual whisker increments.....

Those that I listed earlier ... 'There are clear gains with the K7 / K5 conbined with battery grip - firstly the obvious extended power with an extra Li-on and 6 AAs on board.

But also the grip provides the key shooting controls (shutter, EC, ISO, green button, AL-L, and the two e-dials) in the same position vertically as the user would have them in normal position (as do the top Pro bodies of the competition without a grip). Once you're used to flicking the camera over into vertical and the hands hardly move you'll never want to go back.

And the grip adds a solidity (yes, weight) and tactile security that transforms handling - for me its just all positive'.

Plus, for tripod use, the BG-4 grip allows you to change both a camera battery and the AAs with the camera in place on the tripod - without the grip you have to remove the camera from the tripod first.

I don't really get the point of all this square format stuff..... this is supposed to be a reason that I don't need my BG-4 grip to help with vertical shooting? Well, I suppose it might be a reason if I actually had a square format sensor - but I don't! So that goes out the window.

In any case, I'm not sure that a square format would be ideal for the range of general photography that most Pentax users would engage in - I see it as potentially more restrictive than liberating.

And the cropping argument? Surely most cropping is done for the purpose of allowing a little leeway with framing and tightening up a composition a little at the end of a workflow? That is, a minimal amount, not throwing away a lot of pixels. If we are to start cropping for the purpose of changing the aspect ratio of our images, then that takes it onto a whole new level.

True, I only have first-hand experiences of my own 'man-machine' interface... the 'man' part that is .... but as I own the BG-4 grip I have used the camera quite a bit with and without it.

I would really recommend to all users of compatible Pentax DSLRS, if you can get the chance, to try your camera with the Grip - it really does alter the whole feel and handling of your camera for the better, and you may not want to go back

Yeah, I've seen pictures shot in this format - is it the Hassleblad that uses it? Sure, resolves that issue, but not all types of subjects benefit from a square format, and we'd end up cropping a lot I'd have though, so throwing pixels away.

And the other benefits I listed would still be missing.