Well I guess we'll find out in the fullness of time.

Well the and is that if we are going to make comparisons between different items, then the playing field should be level. We can only compare new prices against new prices fairly.

If we want to compare used prices then we can't fairly compare used for one item but new for the other. Used prices are also more difficult to compare where items are different ages. I suspect there are not many used K-5s around yet anyway.

I thought this would be obvious.

Very good. Ideal for a tripod though probably.

I love these disused and derelict sites, they have a certain poignancy about them.

But those are used items....

I've had a look at Amazon and still can't find anything like the prices you are quting puma. If I did, I would be very suspicious as to why a supplier was a fraction of the price of everyone else.

The prices are much more in line with the SRS prices that I originally checked with.

It doesn't encourage people to ask if they get tetchy repies. Offering advice is freely given and no doubt of help to many people who don't actually reply.

Approval in the new group test in Advanced Photographer.

Interestingly, the Pentax and Tokina lenses are actually full frame designs, only limited by the fixed lens hood. Those wanting a FF camera may take some solace from that. Apparently some Tokina users have the hood removed and use the lens on FF bodies.

Do read the report, but here's the overall scores from the lenses tested:

Canon L 8-15mm f4 92%
SMC Pentax-DA 10-17mm f/3.5-4.5 ED(IF) 93%
Samyang 8mm f/3.5 CS 85%
Sigma 10mm f/2.8 EX DC HSM 86%
Sigma 15mm f/2.8 EX DG 86%
Tokina AT-X 10-17mm f/3.5-4.5 DX 93%
Lensbaby Fisheye Optic 82%
Vtec Fisheye lens 75%

It's a puzzle why the Best In Test goes to the Tokina, as the results are identical to the Pentax but the Pentax has the added advantage of QuickShift. Still, such are the mysteries of testing and it's nonetheless interesting.

Yes indeed, one would have a much narrower field of view!

You can use a card reader and copy the files to one laptop as many times as you like, or indeed to as many computers as you like.

The only think that will probably stop you copying over the pictures twich might be if you connect the camera directly and have it set to automatically download. It might realise it's done the job once and not opt to do it twice.

If that is the case something is seriously wrong Stan. All lenses should be sharp unless they are damaged or really old designs that in some way are unsuitable for digital capture.