Hi

Thanks to all those who suggested shooting RAW + Jpeg. I gave it a try.

1. although the two images look similar, the parameters are different - check it out in the Pentax utilities that preserves the RAW b&w parameters - the histograms are quite different
2. trying to match up a RAW image to the Jpeg by eye also doesn't work - perhaps it comes close but no cigar as they say.

The times that I have carelessly erased some image that I've worked on for maybe several hours, - or in one case that I remember - a week - I have never been able to get it back through looking at the print - close but no . . .

Now if I was a technical perfectionist, I would have all the alterations of a perfect print set down in paper so that it could be repeated, but precision is foreign to me.

Unfortunately, as great as this adjustment seems, it doesn't translate into flexibility like one would expect to get from fooling around with a black & white negative

I can't recall the name of the book, but it featured about a dozen well known photographers including the great Ansel Adams. Each was so specific about the process of his / her photography from exposure to the chemicals and time in development all that is except one, who based his exposures & developments on how long it took him to smoke a cigarette. He was despairing as he had just quit smoking.

Now that's my hero

herb greenslade

Hi

Just as I was waiting for the net to open I realized that it was one of the Carry on Gang and other 50-60's British comics but just couldn't pull out his name out of my hat.

herb greenslade

Hi

I've been doing that in digital for at least 4-5 years, including converting the odd photo I've shot in colour film. I sometimes have two or more duplicates with different adjustments in my Lightroom file.

As a Tri-X lover for most of my years, I have a preference for b&w and the majority of my images (bird shots rarely included) I convert to b&w. Unfortunately, some people want colour, so digital RAW complies.

The fact that one can experiment with filtration in b&w in-camera (and I have never been a filter user) adds another dimension to my pre-visualization of an image and as such it is a disappointment when one cannot use that as one's starting point. It is very rare that one keeps an image without doing some adjustment either in colour or b&w - therefore the reason to shoot RAW.

This year not being 100% familiar with the quirkiness of my new K7, for some shoots, I've had no option but to convert most of my images into black & white. I've also found that shooting in black & white in-camera has given me a better perspective in these cases on my exposures, focusing and formatting. I'm happy, but some people have wanted me to have more colour.

herb greenslade
PS BTW you look like a young David Niven. Are you?

Hi Stefan & John

Maybe my last message didn't make it. It was just a "thank you" again and an admission that I was on some sort of a Quixote mission charging at an impossible wall.

To update you, I've just wasted another 30 minutes looking at my DNG files. I convert all of my PEF's to duplicate DNG's and I notice that the DNG file contains the adjustment information that I do in Lightroom within its structure (the PEF files have an external file of adjustments). Checked at one of my DNG's to ensure that I also have the original RAW info.

So , I just shot two images in b&w and saved in DNG format, imported them into Lightroom. Same thing, within nanoseconds the b&w converts back to the original RAW info. If I press "camera default" button the file momentarily returns to b&w like a long lost memory that quickly fades back to the RAW reality. I'm scrod!!!

Also thanks for the link

herb greenslade

Hi

Just another thought. It just occurred to me, the one thing I haven't tried is saving the image in DNG format. Maybe??? Has anyone tried ???

herb greenslade

Hi

Thanks to everyone who has taken an interest in this subject.

To the RAW & Jpeg solution: There is already a solution by using the Pentax utilities that gets the image as interpreted by the camera into a TIFF or Jpeg file. Also I assume that the RAW image is also saved. I've tried to get the parameters so that I could insert them into Lightroom, but so far have failed. Once in Tiff or Jpeg all further adjustments are destructive. What I want is the RAW file adjusted to the parameters as given by the camera so that I can use these as a stepping stone if required. By having duplicates or virtuals in Lightroom, I can do whatever with the image without losing the original.

To Stefan:

One day I have to sit down and actually learn how to do presets

Re: Stefan's

The DS sensor, unlike its competitors didn't have or had a very mild infra-red filter over its sensor. Using a 89B filter the image would be exposed and converting the image to b&w one would get an excellent infra-red image at a reasonable hand held exposure. With the K7 CMOS sensor & an 89B filter, the exposure is at least 10 times longer requiring a tripod.

And the in-camera infra-red filter is a joke.

As an aside: with my *istDS I had a lot of problems with over-exposed leafage. I wonder now if it was because the infra-red rays weren't filtered sufficiently in the camera.

Again thanks to everyone

herb greenslade

Hi

To Stefan - I read your comments before I sent out the request. When you talk of presets, I would assume that this would alter everyone of my imported images, and still wouldn't give me what I want, e.i. the specific setting for each individual image as set by the K7. Someone mentioned an upgrade for version 2.2 that includes specific camera settings, but I don't know if it is available for the K7, nor do I know whether it allows Lightroom to read the in-camera adjustments.

To Peter. When I first saw a demo of the use of an infrared filter for the K7 from a Pentax marketer, I just assumed that it was a part of the newer digital filters that worked for jpeg's only, something with which I was already familiar having experimented with my *istDS. (BTW, the K7 isn't as nice as the older Pentax cameras which gave really nice infrared exposures when a proper infrared filter was placed before the lens - something that was lost with the new CMOS sensor).

Actually it is the ability to adjust the RAW in camera which allows the camera to "record" in b&w. It is still a RAW image with adjustments that are applied to the Jpeg icon that appears on one's camera screen, the same that allows one to determine that one's image is properly exposed and has the proper white white-balance.

What I want is the ability to import the RAW files into Lightroom with the K7 in-camera adjustments and still have the ability to go back to the original RAW

Something akin to eating one's cake and still having it too - I guess

Thanks for your interest

herb greenslade

Hi

I own a K7 camera. Over the last several months I've explored many of the features of this wonderful (for me) camera. One of the most intriguing is the ability to shoot RAW in black & white with the various digital filters. When I have time I also photograph the same in the normal RAW in colour.

My problem: When I import these images into Lightroom (I have version 2.7) The icons come in b & w, but LightRoom converts them immediately into the original RAW - e.i. colour. Ordinarily this shouldn't be a problem as I have sufficient skills to convert the image into b&w. That I'm unable, though, to save my image with the camera adjustments from my original shoot is bothersome.

Other than using the Pentax utilities, is there a way to resolve this problem?

Thanks

herb greenslade