Perhaps because I told them there was nothing wrong with the lens in the covering letter - so they have kindly acknowledged the guarantee would cover that...

I really do get the feeling they have solely relied on my letter, not on any investigation at all. This might be a repair-centre issue rather than Pentax as such, but doesn't give much confidence! There's a lesson here - never give details you don't need to or tell them what you think might or might not be wrong!

I had to send in all original parts of the package. That's why they have it. But you are right - it's ridiculous double standards

Froeschle,

I think I must have made a mistake about the centre in Munich. There isn't one - it's HAmburg, Berlin or Vechelde - and it is indeed authorised repair centres.

The seller told me I could get in direct contact with the repair centre, but wouldn't tell me to which it was sent (helpful!). They eventually sent the cost breakdown though, attached (repair centre blocked out!). Maybe the German speakers could help here. It looks like they are charging for the replacement of the motherboard and processor - however this cost also includes investigation, which begs the question whether this is just precautionary based on the fact I told them it was used in damp and cold conditions. They also include in their labour costs cleaning the sensor and upgrading the firmware. Well I can clean the sensor or choose my nearby favourite camera centre (Sauter) and the firmware is up-to-date...

For non-german-speakers, it's €252 labour and €285 parts + VAT (letter not attached).

Time to contact Pentax Germany directly to see if they will step in.

By the way, in case it got lost in an earlier post, check out these promo photos by Pentax of the K5ii (scroll down to bottom):
http://www.pentax.eu/en/press-release-K5-II-and-K5-IIs.html

And also check this facebook wall posting from Pentax (13.09.2012). Same weather sealing as K5 isn't it?
"With the K-5 II, you can capture stunning photographs others simply won’t be able to… In rain or shine…and in sleet, sand, dust and snow with PENATAX signature weather sealing. The K-5 II and K-5 IIs are housed in sturdy, magnesium alloy bodies with 77 weather and dustproofing seals. The K-5 II and K-5 IIs are designed for worry-free use in any weather condition—including wet, sub-freezing, and snowy winter conditions. This camera is cold resistant down to 10°C or 14°F, for excellent use in mid-winter, sleet and snowy conditions."

hmmmm, so long as you don't need a warranty repair eh Pentax?

May 22.05.2012 is also interesting, as is their post from 26.07.2013 - where they appear to endorse a review calling the K30 "totally weatherproof"

Sorry - collecting ammo to present Pentax HQ Germany.

This whole episode got me wondering about that. Wouldn't the seals work both ways for the wr lenses?

Although one must assume of course that if it got it can get out.

Just noticed my camera insurance does not exclude water damage. But it does exclude manufacturers defects...

Presumably as it's insurance against theft and damage, I would also have to have actually dropped it in a lake or something though. Interesting Nonetheless.

Good point ilovesaabs - despite my camera not having led a pampered life, I pampered him enough to fully insure him. I will check the policy

George, I'm not sure what you mean not led a pampered life, rather presumptive wouldn't you say? Unfortunately i think some have become so brainwashed by tech companies, that when someone has a problem people are sadly quick to jump on the user, rather than to think they maybe his tech failed in some way. That the issue only started when I changed battery suggests something electrical at work and we all know how electrical problems can maifest themselves in many ways - it does not mean multiple problems.

I'm glad you also think they are pretty good in the rain, noting John says he has often used this combo in heavy rain as have many others on this thread - even with non WR lenses. That's the point of the thread. You'll have seen I also said I had used it in intermittant drizzly conditions over a series of days. As said, always in a bag when not in use and I always have two drying cloths, so that one is always damp free, and I can dry it as I go along if need be. Not a scrath on my camera, thank you very much. The mirror issue I mentioned on here about 18 months ago as I thought it odd, but in the end dsimissed it to being due to an old not A1 manual lens. That I now have 4 manuals with exactly the same mirror issue tells me only now otherwise. I've never moved it from cold to warm envronments without plastic bagging appropriately, and not at all during the relevent time.

We only need to cast our minds back to the sensor issue to know that problems can and do arise. That you may not suffer as a result until later doesn't dimish it in any way.

I'm not sure why you doubt the videos? The pentax rep in the pentax t-shirt at the pentax stand pouring water all over the camera is pretty well known (if arguably not authorised from head office). The one I linked is an official promo from back in the day, but if you still doubt, you can always head straight to Pentax's own website and check out the big K5 promotional banner here:
link

Then go to the official EU site and check out all pictures from 23 onwards - the implication is pretty damn clear to me, straight from Pentax:link
(disclaimer last is of K5II, K5 no longer on site - but pentax also acknowledges it's the same carried over to from K5)

Yes they do seem to change between weatherproof and weather-resistant in terminology in places, but you have to look at the bigger picture, in terms of the whole marketing: descriptions, official videos, viral videos, product shots etc. It's their biggest trump card, and they have gone to great efforts to hammer home the point it can be used in even the most extreme weather even "assuring" it can be used reliably under "harsh environment". Operating way above minimum operating temperature away from dust, but subject to exposre to drizzle, is hardly "harsh" or "extreme" as Pentax claim elsewhere, wouldn@t you agree. And using the word "assure" is remarkably close to "guarantee", if not in a legal sense, and certainly seeks to emphasis the credentials.

Of course they can't have a blanket acceptance of water-damage claims. But when someone carefully takes the time to explain in minute detail how it was used within its paramters, there has to be some give from Pentax and a willingness to engage with the customer if they wish to continue to make the claims they do and maintain consumer confidence, or even hold onto existing customers.

Thanks froeschle,

The store just confirmed they've not heard anything more from the 'manufacturer', and have offered to put me in direct contract with them, so I'll be starting again, but at least I'll know who exactly who I'm dealing with. Think I'll copy in Pentax Germany from the outset.

I now realised what you meant by the switching of the burden of proof. That's a bit special for Germany but I've already gone down that road with a damaged car battery, so I know what you mean. In summary, it's damn hard to prove you haven't done something! And my witness is my wife...not sure how that will be seen - no actually I do!

I forgot to mention, I was even given the option of disposing of the camera for free.

Now that's good investigation of a camera that stemmed to be working when I sent it in!

Hi john,

Just to clarify. Yes I'm dealing with a third party, who have been very good. They have also made it clear that the decision was the 'manufacturer's'. Although I realise of course this could also be their choice of words. But if it is an authorised repair centre, they are operating according to Pentax warranties, so ultimately they can ask Pentax if they'll pay or offer some alternative, as you suggest.

I would say intermittent fault. It stopped working completely for 2 days. Even if it seemed healthy, I think that's ground enough for a check. However, I've noticed I have a sticky mirror with all manual lenses under a certain condition, so I wanted that checked, too.

I want the breakdown so I can say fix the mirror under warranty, leave the Circuitboard, or whatever they still maintain is not covered as water damage. I'm not going to go down the legal route. It worked the day before I sent it, so I'll take the risk st that price.

The 3rd party paid for the postage, if no repairs are done I pay 40 euros to have it back. Call this postage or investigation fee, I'm happy with that so long as they have actually looked at it.

Hi Froeschle,

Yes I too would be interested to see what Pentax would advise when directly asked - say in a public forum, rather than in private to one person's letter.

I certainly do have witnesses as to how it was used, it's just sad that Pentax can fall back on this without any effort. Now foolishly I gave full disclosure freely about the conditions I was using it in. A couple of the issues predated this time, and this was also made clear. Now, 4 days ago they told me it was was water damage, not covered by warranty and the repair would cost 647€. So, 4 days ago I asked for a copy of their quotation and investigation so that I would know what exactly they found. Strangely I have heard nothing since, despite chasing them up. It took them 1 day from the camera arriving with them to make their decision. My best guess is they used my letter to form their conclusions rather than actually open up the camera. I even got a holding email. It cannot be that hard to send an email with an already existing attachment...

Nokia provided a full diagnostic on a famously water-damage prone model many years ago. Although disappointed, their transparency was appreciated. They even gave me an address of a lab if I wanted to have it tested myself to dispute their findings.

The point of this thread was to vent a little, but mostly to raise an issue that might affect others on a forum I found friendly and informative in the past. I can't do this on every forum, unfortunately.

Highlighting regional differences is simply to explain why some remedies may not be available to me to the UK forum members.
Pentax's response should be universal given the international warranty card you can easily obtain. So if you're spending 3 months in Germany, your UK camera can be repaired here. Mine came with a French manual, so I suspect a French model, but that's caused no issue.

Due to a misinterpretation of EU law, Germany is great that out gives 2 years warranty on everything. Not in the UK, but you do see it sometimes. So in some ways I'm lucky I have a chance to even try for a warranty repair.

But this is more of an issue of misleading advertising and Pentax's response. Legal remedies could be discussed to the nth degree, but the question is whether we should even have to think on these terms when we just want to enjoy our cameras worry free.