BarryPearson

Joined: 27th September 2013

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BarryPearson
Pentaxophile wrote:
Interesting. There's a lot more colour noise, but that's easier to deal with, and there's quite a bit more detail in the k3 shot too.
My own (similar) experience with A3+ prints from the Imaging Resource DNGs for the K-3 and the K-5IIs is that there is extra luminance noise and colour noise at high ISOs (I mainly used 51200) with the K-3. When I applied enough extra colour noise reduction to get that under control, I still had to apply extra luminance noise reduction to get that under control too. And the results never became as satisfactory as the K-5IIs. (I had a friend check the prints yesterday to make sure it wasn't just me).

(In all other respects so far, the K-3 is a better camera than the K-5IIs. It is faster in operation, for example 3-image bracketing appears much faster. But unless I find that I've been doing something wrong, or there is something wrong with the Imaging Resource DNGs, I'll probably use my K-5IIs rather than my K-3 for high ISO photography. I'm still testing this).

Comment by BarryPearson posted on K-3 studio test shots now on Imaging Resource at 02/11/2013 - 03:23

BarryPearson
Smeggypants wrote:
No the NR was dramatically improved in Process Version 2012 versus PV201. You'll see when you upgrade to LR4 or LR5
Thanks! I had better press the button to buy that new PC then.
This is what I am thinking of.

Comment by BarryPearson posted on K-3 studio test shots now on Imaging Resource at 31/10/2013 - 09:30

BarryPearson
johnriley wrote:
The 100% images result in different magnifications with the K-3 and K-5, thus introducing another variable.

What would we conclude the significance of that would be?
My K-3 versus K-5IIs tests simply printed the whole image at A3+. The subject matter was the same size in the frame in all cases, and a casual glance might have considered them to be the same photo.

In other words, I tested for a real-world situation, printing at my favourite size, eliminating any other debates about how to compare.

Comment by BarryPearson posted on K-3 studio test shots now on Imaging Resource at 31/10/2013 - 09:00

BarryPearson
ChrisA wrote:
scotjames wrote:
Does anybody actually shoot at these iso levels anyway? I don't think I've ever gone above 6400 and even then incredibly rarely.
This, as an argument for not worrying about the very high ISO settings, is putting the cart before the horse.

The reason we don't go above ISO 6400 or whatever is because the result is bad. If it wasn't, surely we would?
Precisely! High ISOs can be liberating, as extra options to be exploited as long as you can still get good results.

I have gone up to ISO 12,800 with my K-5IIs this year. With careful choice of parameters in Lightroom the results were very sharp, and the noise, while there, wasn't intrusive or objectionable. And with some trickery in Photoshop I could have reduced the noise even further.

Comment by BarryPearson posted on K-3 studio test shots now on Imaging Resource at 31/10/2013 - 08:53

BarryPearson
Smeggypants wrote:
OK, downloaded the ISO 51200 DNG's of K3 and K-5 from Imaging resource....

Imported into Lightroom 4.2 and applied my standard NR settings for ISO52100 to each. I have to say the K-5 beats the K-3 hands down. And it's not just colour noise. the colour noise setting in LR4.2 on these 21/100. Even wacking it up to 100/100 on the k3 version, still left loads more luminance noise than the K-5 version.

The next step was to increase the luminance setting ( which is on 47/100 for these examples ) so that the K-3's luminance noise levels roughly equalled that of the K-5. Somewhere around 70/100 did the trick but left that hideous 69th generation VHS copy smear that high NR gives.
Unfortunately, that agrees with my own assessment. I was hoping I was wrong. (But I think up to about ISO 6400 there is much more similarity between the K-5IIs and the K-3).

I will soon know. The latest Track & Trace for my K-3 reads:
31-10-2013 - 06:32 - Manchester Piccadilly Depot - Loaded to vehicle for delivery

Comment by BarryPearson posted on K-3 studio test shots now on Imaging Resource at 31/10/2013 - 08:48

BarryPearson
Smeggypants wrote:
Consider upgrading to LR4 or 5. Noise reduction is much better, as is the overall processing.
Process 2010 was introduced with Lightroom 3, not 4. My understanding is that noise reduction, which was dramatically improved in Lightroom 3, is pretty much the same since then. (But the Basic panel was very much improved in Lightroom 4).

Yes, I will be upgrading to the latest versions of Lightroom and Photoshop when I have upgraded my Victorian-era Windows XP PC to something more recent! Thanks.

Comment by BarryPearson posted on K-3 studio test shots now on Imaging Resource at 31/10/2013 - 08:42

BarryPearson
robbiec wrote:
Could be that Lightroom needs an update to understand how to deal with K-3 files. The camera is not officially out in the wild just yet.
I'm still using Lightroom 3.6, and it handles the K-3 DNGs well. (In fact, it handles my K-5IIs DNGs well, even though it was released before the K-5IIs). My Lightroom is currently using the K-3's DNGs' embedded profiles.

I expect Adobe will eventually create their own camera profile for the K-3, but I never use Adobe profiles. I'll create my own for the K-3, just as I have for all my previous cameras.

Comment by BarryPearson posted on K-3 studio test shots now on Imaging Resource at 31/10/2013 - 05:47

BarryPearson
McGregNi wrote:
No software noise defaults would be expected to deal with such extreme high iso. It is not unexpected that you`d need much higher corrections. Perhaps your results are not unexpected either?
I was comparing the K-3 at ISO 51,200 with the K-5IIS at ISO 51,200. The K-5IIs worked OK with the Lightroom default "Color" noise reduction value of 25, but the K-3 didn't.

When my K-3 arrives in a week or so I will have to experiment to get a feel for how hard I can push it within the range that Lightroom can handle. My K-5IIs will become my back-up camera, always reasonably accessible, so if the K-3 turns out not to be as good in this case as the K-5IIs I won't be too upset, because I will have the latter to fall back on. But I would obviously prefer to be able to stick with just my K-3.

Comment by BarryPearson posted on K-3 studio test shots now on Imaging Resource at 30/10/2013 - 10:25

BarryPearson
Smeggypants wrote:
Interesting.

As kind of expected ( although I had my fingers crossed to the contrary ) there's hardly any difference between the noise performance at high ISOs between the K-5 and K-3
I've printed the IR ISO 51200 K-3 DNG and the corresponding K-5IIs DNG at A3+. I first gave them both the same Lightroom noise parameters: Luminance 50, Colour 25. (No sharpening). The K-5IIs print was OK, although noisy. The K-3 print was dreadful (colour noise mostly).

I had to increase the K-3 noise parameters to Luminance 75, Colour 50, before there was approximate equivalence of print quality.

I don't know whether such different parameters should be expected, but the Lightroom default for Colour is 25, and that is normally enough.

Up to about ISO 6400 I don't think there is much difference between the K-3 and the K-5IIs. Above that things diverge.

Comment by BarryPearson posted on K-3 studio test shots now on Imaging Resource at 29/10/2013 - 23:10

BarryPearson
Class_A wrote:
In a nutshell: The periodic sensor-based blurring movement is of course not instantaneous but takes time; it operates at 500 Hz. Hence, towards faster shutter speeds, a given region on the sensor will not be exposed to the full blur movement anymore but only to some fraction of it. Which phase of the periodic blur movement is "seen" by a pixel then depends on the pixel's position on the sensor. Some phases of the blur movement are more effective in terms of the desired AA-smearing effect than others (e.g., a full horizontal movement is better than half of it going forward and then backward, hence not covering as many sensels). As a result, the smearing effect will not be the same across the image, but will vary across it (in the vertical shutter travel direction).
Thanks for that.

In effect, the effect will be evenly distributed across the sensor if the shutter exposes the sensor for an exact multiple of the vibration period. If there are multiple vibrations per exposure, any difference caused by one incomplete vibration is likely to be insignificant.

(I wonder if I should say "an exact multiple of half the vibration period"? If the vibration is symmetrical, half a vibration should do the trick).

The IR article quotes Ricoh/Pentax as "fully functional up to 1/1000th second". That presumably excludes "fully functional" for studio flash. It will be interesting to see what "partially functional" means for studio flash. But this is a separate matter - unlike shutter-based exposure, flash-exposure presumably acts evenly over the whole sensor.

Comment by BarryPearson posted on Interesting Reading about simulated AA filter of K-3 at 28/10/2013 - 10:09

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