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zipping RAW files

justgetoutandride
Posted 27/02/2007 - 10:13 Link
Hello peeps, a question if I may.

I have about 6 Gb of pictures, saving to DVD means using 2 disks (at the moment!).

I was thinking about compressing the files to save to DVD.

What would that to to the image files, assuming they can be compressed at all, which I'm not sure about.

thanks.
Please call me aj,

I use a Pentax K10D, on a MacBook with LightRoom (vers 1.3 + beta 2)

http://www.ba-joseph.co.uk/gallery
MattMatic
Posted 27/02/2007 - 10:47 Link
AJ,
Zip compression won't do too much at all for PEF files.
Your best bet is to use the stand alone, free, Adobe DNG Convertor which can create highly compressed versions of the original PEF or DNG files

(You'll need to download the current version of the convertor though)
Matt
justgetoutandride
Posted 27/02/2007 - 12:28 Link
Thanks Matt,

You suggestion has made me look at what I have regarding software, and what I want from archiving.

Here are my findings:

Adobe DNG converter took 16.3 mb k10 .DNG files down to 11.3 mb, saving 5mb per file. However, this created an additional file for each original and the converted file has been changed compared to the original. I now have ~ 66 mb of files in the same folder.

With this process I now have some options:

A. I can move out the compressed files to DVD and delete the originals,

B. Delete originals and keep compressed files on disk, saving space.

C. Move all files out to DVD.

Using the Mac's archive program, zipping a 33 mb folder containing the same two files compressed them down to 28.2 mb. Not the same space saving, but the files now take up much less space overall.

Options for this process.

D. Keep zipped folders on disk.

E. move zipped folders to DVD.

I'm not happy to delete the original raw files, so A and B is out.

Option C will take even more DVD's to backup.

Zipping folders, whilst not saving as much space, looks the better option. The originals are not changed or converted, date stamps remain the same etc.

I also have the option of keeping the zipped files on disk and archiving them to DVD.

Anyone have comments or alternative solutions?
Please call me aj,

I use a Pentax K10D, on a MacBook with LightRoom (vers 1.3 + beta 2)

http://www.ba-joseph.co.uk/gallery
Mannesty
Posted 27/02/2007 - 13:08 Link
My preferred choice of storage is RAID but that does not prevent accidental file/image deletions. My preferred choice of backup is a separate hard drive. External USB hard drives have enormous capacity and are not expensive nowadays.

I also backup to tape, but that's another ball game and much more expensive than an additional HDD.
Peter E Smith - flickr Photostream
Rodger Fooks
Posted 27/02/2007 - 14:58 Link
I agree with Mannesty
External HDD space is now so cheap that it's possibly the best way to back up files. But remember be it HDD, DVD or CD you can still loose all your pics at any time

HDD's fail, DVD/CD's scratch and become unreadable etc...

In a commercial environmemt it is essential not to lose anything so remote storage is needed (huge FTP (web) space) or removable HDD's that can be kept off site. EG One copy on your main computer system and one on USB HDD or removable HDD bay that can be taken away at night.

In a home environment keep the pics on 2 seperate HDD's or one lot on HDD and one on DVD.

If using tape I use a 7 day tape rotation with monthly system and data backup - all kept off site. Not cheap but prevents data loss of any type

All comes down to cost benifit analysis - what can you afford to lose and what can you not lose.

BTW - I'm a data and security specialist for commercial environs.
Old wood best to burn, old wine to drink, old friends to trust, and old authors to read.
golfdiesel
Posted 27/02/2007 - 15:03 Link
I have the pictures on the HDD in my PC.
I allways use two HDD's in a PC, one for the OS and applications and one for data, so I am less likely to loose data in an event that the OS needs re-installation.

I addition I use a USB HDD for backup.
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old timer
Posted 27/02/2007 - 15:17 Link
For non computer folk, it is important to understand the difference between different physical HDDs and different partions on one physical drive.
I know of people who happily partition one physical drive into two drives and then wonder why everything is lost when the physical drive dies - as it will!
It is not a mistake you make twice, but by then it might be too late.

Graham
Keep up the good work
Graham

I'll think of something someday.
justgetoutandride
Posted 27/02/2007 - 15:41 Link
I'm looking to get a 250-300 gb firewire external hd before too long. This will be added to my wife's mac mini in the study.

I currently have all my data files backed up via ftp to the other mac in the study. This is done every hour, 24 hrs a day. I can't store my data files at another location, so backing up to DVD is the next best thing.

Belt and braces, can't fault it, I'm not having my trousers fall down in public!!

Please call me aj,

I use a Pentax K10D, on a MacBook with LightRoom (vers 1.3 + beta 2)

http://www.ba-joseph.co.uk/gallery
Ammonyte
Posted 27/02/2007 - 15:47 Link
FWIW here's my approach:-

I use Photoshop Elements Organiser to catalogue my files (I can also apply all sorts of tags to the files to find them easily again, or sort them by subject etc). Then, periodically, I back them up to dual-layer DVD (8.5 GB) using the "Move Offline" option in PSE Organiser. When I try to open an offline file PSEO prompts me for the disk name.

What I really should do, is to duplicate the DVD's and store them elsewhere (e.g. desk at work) then if house burns down I still have copies.
Tim the Ammonyte
--------------
K10D & sundry toys
http://www.ammonyte.com/photos.html
Rodger Fooks
Posted 27/02/2007 - 16:01 Link
Right idea Tim

Lets just hope your house doesn't burn down before you get the files transfered

But seriously why not buy a usb or firewire HDD and take it with you when you leave the house - like you would mobile phone, keys etc...
Old wood best to burn, old wine to drink, old friends to trust, and old authors to read.
Ammonyte
Posted 27/02/2007 - 16:14 Link
...because dropping the HDD would do more damage than dropping a DVD. A DVD cannot be reformatted, damaged by static etc. As a long-term archival method it is more stable. Oh and I'd only have to take one or two DVD's in to the office rather than remember to take the HDD every day!

Where I'm coming from on this, is that my company uses an optical archival system to reduce paperwork. Documents are scanned into the system, burned onto CD's. The CD's sit in a tower for instant access and copies go to our offsite secure data storage company for disaster recovery purposes and sit in bomb-proof vaults. I wonder if i can sneak my DVD's in there? And if it's good enough from the company, it should be good enough for me.

Tim the Ammonyte
--------------
K10D & sundry toys
http://www.ammonyte.com/photos.html
Rodger Fooks
Posted 27/02/2007 - 17:35 Link
I can just imagine the stack of DVD's that would be by your desk

But yep - if you had all that money the way you co does it is just right.

Perhaps you could FTP them to their OAS
Old wood best to burn, old wine to drink, old friends to trust, and old authors to read.
Ammonyte
Posted 27/02/2007 - 17:42 Link
And of course there is this...http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2007/02/27/sandisk_read-only_memory_card/

Get ready to replace all your SC cards!
Tim the Ammonyte
--------------
K10D & sundry toys
http://www.ammonyte.com/photos.html
Taliety
Posted 27/02/2007 - 21:35 Link
Just to add a couple of doom and gloom points.

RAID has a couple of problems:
1. is understanding that RAID 1 only gives increased performance, but doubles the chance that you'll lose your data through a hard drive crash, since either drive failing will cause total data loss.
2. Mirroring only protects against data corruption. If a file is accidentally overwritten, then the mirror also overwrites the file. This can occur because of an operator error, but it can occur due to a system curruption or failure.

CD/DVD can be damaged by exposure to light (I've had one damaged). Their long term retention is not known, but it's generally assumed that the data is good for about 10-15years. They are not thought to provide permanent data retention.

So, if you want to retain your data for long periods, store the CD/DVDs in the cool and dark, and copy them every few years. I would start with two copies and keep them in different locations, as already mentioned.

I don't think that keeping data on the computer on hard disk, RAID or not, should be regarded as a safe place to keep it. It always pays to keep an external backup. I wouldn't delete them from my memory card until I have a copy in two other places, HDD and CD or two CDs.

I don't always follow my advice, but this is what I always intend
Cheers

Malcolm

Life? Don't talk to me about life!
old timer
Posted 28/02/2007 - 07:27 Link
Taliety wrote:

2. Mirroring only protects against data corruption. If a file is accidentally overwritten, then the mirror also overwrites the file. This can occur because of an operator error, but it can occur due to a system curruption or failure.

Actually Mirror raid is effective only against disc failure of one of the discs. By definition, anything that happens to one set of data will be mirrored on the other set. I gave up on Raid after twice losing all the data, but fortunately I had a separate backup elsewhere.

Now I use my own version of Mirror - I have two separate discs and manually copy each new set of images across after each session. But for belt and braces I also keep completed work on DVD and on a USB Hard drive. Even so, if the house goes up in smoke I am ********

Hope that helps
Graham
Keep up the good work
Graham

I'll think of something someday.

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