Wide angle flash

Sorry about that.
The lumiquest site isn't that hard to read and it explains it quite well the differences between diffusers link

The new Metz will cover up to 8mm according the data they give and indeed the lens can be a problem, maybe use it off shoe with wireless P-TTL?

With P-TTL you don't need to compensate, the flash outputs a standard value preflash and the camera calculates with the meter inside the camera how much flash it needs so any light modifiers or lens filters are taken into account.
The problem is you've limited flash power and at full discharge it can easily take 3 seconds to charge up again. If you use 1/4th of the power you can make 4 continues photos with flash instead of one every 3 seconds also you drain the batteries four times as fast.

8mm on a 35mm camera - so 12mm on APC?

No other way around.
12mm for 135 format but since the angle of view is narrower on APS-C with a factor of 1.5x that means you can use 8mm lens with this flash for ASP-C cameras

Stefan said:

"Sorry Ken but they don't work outdoors for the reason that I've said, if not show me a photo that makes a difference because I don't see a difference when I use the Sto-fen outdoors."

Here's a quick comparison with the K20D and the Samsung SEF-36PZF taken outdoors with the flash in P-TTL mode and set to -1.5 stops compensation. Both pictures straight from the camera and the same exposure.

I think there is a marked improvement in the second over the first, softer shadows and more pleasing warmer tones.

Ken it looks like you're standing under something if so then that's cheating

I can't really say if it makes a differnce, she hold her head a bit different but the shadow under her right yaw looks the same to me at this size.
As for the colour that wasn't what we talked about and it only shows the sto-fen isn't colour neutral, a GTO gel would have the same effect.
As since her skin looks darker the contrast between the shadows is also less, maybe that make the difference if there is any?

Yes, you've rumbled me, I was standing under something - the sky. Dont you have one too?

I've never heard of 'GTO' gel but I suspect you mean 'CTO' - colour temperature orange. If so then the effect would be a pronounced orange cast. The slight warmth in this picture is a lot less than even 1/4 CTO would give.

Sorry to step on your toes Ken.

Just look at your photo, you could easily have being standing in a tunnel or something like that. You've a wall on the left side and clearly something going overhead on the right side of the photo that's why I asked if something was above you.

Yes CTO it's called, sorry.

ps. just thought about it but you've a wall on the left so the stofen throws light on that. You might be outside but the stofen had a surface to bounce from, if you don't have a surface it won't work and will only eat up the light.

if you look closer you'll see three subtle differences.

1) the shadow is softer, look at the edges under the chin, hard edge on the top one, slightly softer edge on the bottom..
2) contrast is slightly reduced on the bottom image... less reflected light off the skin, more detail in the shadows on the bottom one.. also more detail in the dark areas of the hair..
3) the bottom one is picking up a slight warm color cast from the light bouncing off the walls...

I don't know if maybe there's a difference between our monitors, but I can see some difference.

even with nothing to bounce off, the soften is still about three times the area of the straight flash, up close that will be noticable... not dramatic mind you, but noticable..

Now off topic, but if you want cheap and good...

put your flash inside a paper chinese lantern (white) and get the sucker off the camera.

Yes on the left side off her face it does look softer but I never said it didn't
Agreed that the contrast is less. The highlights on her skin are hard to judge because the angle of her face is different.
could certainly be.

I too but not relative to what was discussed. I said the Stofen won't work outdoors because it has nothing to bounce off from to soften the shadows, I did forgot walls there and the ground, still the effect is very minimal and not efficient.
According to Sto-fen it cost 2.5 stops off light when you use it.

What if you use the wide angle diffuser that some flashes have?
I do agree with you that the increase in the light source will soften the shadows but the increase off Sto-fen is very little with hardly any noticeable effect like you said.

The paper lantern thing would be far more effective outdoors, basically anything that enlarge the light source.

I agree it isn't enough for me to justify buying one....
when it comes to soft lighting for portraits, go big or go home.

when it comes to portable and soft light....
foamcore, reflectors, and chinese lanterns beat expensive little plastic tubs any day.

How do those chinese lanterns hold out with some wind?
I confessed I totally forgot about reflectors, cheap and easy and they work even without a flash.

I've one but hardly use it... maybe it's time to take it with me sometimes..

not too bad... they're surprisingly tough... water on the other hand ...lol!

a quick and dirty way to use a reflector... straighten out your bounce head and hold the flash and reflector in one hand.....so the light from the flash rakes across the reflector... you'll get a big lightsource with an obvious hot spot.... so if you hold it so the flash is high and pointed down along the reflector... like having a main and fill built into one.

here I fired one off using the technique above and the 360fgz (off camera cord) and 30"gold reflector......


no post adjustments, raw to jpeg... k10....

you cant get results like that using flash straight on, or on camera flash.

add a crop and vinette:



and you could do this just as easily with a cheap peice of foamcore...

Don that's a great technique.