Why RAW?

I must be missing something with regards RAW.

As I understand it I have to take a picture in RAW to get better control of the images or so it seems. So I take the RAW picture, which on the K100D is saved in PEF format. Then I use the software supplied with the camera to convert it to JPEG then do any manipulation in Photoshop Elements, which is what I use for tweeking photos if needed. I'm an amateur photographer so am doing this for fun not profit. Why not just take them as JPEG in the first place? The JPEG images look fine to me and are a fair bit less hassle and leave more room on the SD card.

Barry,
If the JPGs work for you - don't worry
RAW gives you:
* Some exposure lattitude. The conversion software will allow over/under exposed images to be corrected.
* Higher detail colour. RAW is 12-bits per colour (4096 values) vs JPG's 8-bits (256 valus). Converting from RAW to JPG usually has better colour fidelity, especially in colour critical applications, but from RAW to 16-bit TIFF is better still.
* More control over white balance. WB can be corrected at the conversion stage. For some shots (mixed lighting in particular), it is possible to take one RAW file, convert it several times (once for each light source) then blend the whole lot in Photoshop.
* More control over sharpening. Once the camera has sharpened the image into a JPG, there's not much you can do to "unsharpen" it properly. RAW allows you to take exactly what the camera output and apply your own choice of sharpening, depending on the image.
* Hot pixel removal. If a hot/stuck pixel gets converted into a JPG in-camera, it usally appears as a little blob/cross. Good RAW conversion software will automatically detect stuck pixels and remove them cleanly. This is particularly an issue in very long exposure times, and as the CCD ages (I have two or three stuck pixels after 3 years).

But yes, it's more hassle, and takes more space on the card.
Last, but not least, generally don't use the supplied software Something like Phase One's Capture One will give far better results!

There is another thread on this subject... I'll try and dig it up.
Matt

Well there's a number of reasons to use RAW and not JPEG in camera, but if all you are doing is opening a RAW and saving as a JPEG it's pointless.
Think of this: If you wanted to make a large print of an image you have on film would you just scan and copy the 4x6 print, or use the actual negative to produce another print?
RAW files are the digital equivilent to a negative... the JPEG is a "camera processed" image... and if there's one thing I learned from shooting negatives, the print you get from the minilab isn't always the way you want the image. Same with RAW and JPEG.

Just a couple simple reasons are that a RAW image has a wider tonal range as its 12bit and a JPEG is 8bit... also if you want to upsample the image to a larger pixel dimension you obtain better quality in a RAW file than a JPEG.
I also find that my RAW images are sharper since I can fine tune the sharpness setting better than the adjustment available on camera (which has only 3 sharpness incrememnts) and there's plenty other options in the RAW conversion software that aren't even available to JPEGers. Ever heard of Luminance Smoothing? or Colour Noise Reduction?

But simply put: if your images are just the way you like them as JPEGs then use that, but the time will come as you expand in your photography to need a broader spectrum of image quality. RAW gives you the tools... it makes YOU the one processing the images and not the camera's computer.

Looks like we cross-typed Joshua

Here are some links:
https://www.pentaxuser.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2343 https://www.pentaxuser.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2482

And this is the main (huge) topic:
https://www.pentaxuser.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1724

Plenty of reading there

Matt

Thanks guys. That helps me better understand this issue. The software that comes with the camera appears to do little except let you save them as a JPEG hence I couldn't see the purpose of it. So if I feel I need more control over the image than I have currently I would need to invest in a better RAW program.

I had best take a look at those links.

Cheers

If you have PSE 4 you can convert your RAW images using that, and do basic manipulations of the RAW image. Not as good as a dedicated RAW converter but better than the Pentax software.

Gwyn, PSE4 is what I have but it doesn't appear to recognise PEF files. How do I get it to do so?

Barry,

You should just be able to open the images, which will automatically start the RAW convertor. So 'File>Open' then navigate to your PEFs and open. I use an istD, and I think the PEFs from later models are different, so can't say whether that might be an issue.

Dan

Also, the Pentax RAW convertor will allow you to convert to TIFF instead of Jpeg, and this will be better for editing in photoshop, and you can then save your final image as a PSD (to preserve all layers etc), or as a Jpeg if you wish (if you're getting prints done in store for instance). At this stage you can say how compressed you want the jpeg to be, pick '12' for the highest quality. I think, although someone more knowledgable might correct me, that the 'best' jpegs from the camera are still only '8' quality, so fairly compressed.

Dan

With photos taken with my K100D PSE4 says the PEF file is damaged or in a format that cannot be included in the organiser. A similar message appears when I use the editor.

Barry,
Even though the PEF format hasn't changed significantly, the RAW convertors match the camera ID with what they know. The K100D is a relatively new camera, and so you probably need an Adobe Camera RAW update for Elements

If that fails, you can download the stand-alone Adobe Camera RAW convertor and convert to Adobe's DNG format which should load into PSE.

Hope that helps!
Matt

Ah, such is the price one pays when you have the latest thing! I guess at some point Adobe will update the RAW convertor and it will then be able to open the K100's files. I wonder if these are different from the DS's, in which case you may have trouble with most third party convertors, they tend to take a while to catch up.

If you have the Pentax Lab version 3 loaded, that may be your best bet for RAW conversion. If you've got version 2, try updating it now (free dowload from Pentax) as 3 is apparently much better, although I can't say as I now use Phase One.

Good luck,
Dan

Downoad thelatest version of ACR from Adobe, it'll probaby have your camera registered by now.

Apparently not...


http://www.adobe.com/support/downloads/detail.jsp?ftpID=3523

http://www.adobe.com/special/photoshop/camera_raw/Camera_Raw_3.5_ReadMe.pdf



Dan

Of course, that assumes that the K100 has different PEF's to the DS and DL - might be worth trying the update in case your PSE4 is a version that didn't ship with support for these cameras Barry.

I'm hoping that by the time the K10D is realesed, Capture One will at least support DNG format, as the new K10D PEF's won't be supported for a couple of months at least, from what I've read on the C1 user forum, although just having looked at the PhaseOne website, they're already supporting the D80 and EOS400D, so perhaps not.

Dan