Which one would you choose?

Have you looked at the new HP Envy?

They can be configured with twin hard drives in RAID, and I would now personally never consider using anything without this for my main machine.

When you mention RAID Shaky, can I ask, performance or reliability? Been reading an awful lot and am tempted by an SSD as the performance increase is massive from what I'm reading / watching.

I could do a RAID with 2x SSDs, but think that would be tooooo expensive!

It is not £20 - but at least £100 premium on Apple - and if you take into account the cost of the original memory that would not be fitted (cost saving by Apple) around £200 over and above what the memory would normally cost (for a consumer). £200 on a £2k machine is a large amount and if the same is applied to HDDs the true additional profit that Apple generate starts to be seen.

I know Danny will do

But the handling of the device is only half off the story, Apple is very good with their user interface so I'm sure I'll enjoy it but the hardware must also comfortably support the software and that won't be a problem but it will have the performance off a laptop that cost half as much
I would then be happier to go for a cheaper notebook and make my own PC at home.

I'm now putting all the software on a list and see if I can exchange or if there are alternative and what the prices are.
The most important is some 3D software from Autodesk, I've no idea if I can exchange that to a Mac version.

Stefan,

Whichever way you go, get the online price and then call - nearer the end of the month, the better.

I normally manage 10% from Apple.

With PC manufacturers it can vary but again 10-15% is a possible or on my last purchase from Dell, I received a free docking station a CPU upgrade and couple of other items - around 20%.

SSD is great to run programs from because of the fast access speeds but for storage of your photos I would simply get the old fashion hard disks.
Putting SSD in rate would only increase throughput I believe so not really worth it if you use it for programs and the OS alone but that's what I think and I can be completely wrong.

The specs of the Sony looked better for that price.

The Autodesk MAC compatible list is at:

http://usa.autodesk.com/products/mac-compatible-products

Some are compatible and some require you to run Windows.

Ideally both, but the main thing is reliability/data redundancy.

On my desktop I run a Raid 10 (sometimes referred to as 0/1) configuration. This is two Raid 0 arrays (=speed) that mirror each other.

Some months ago I had a problem when the hard disk management software reported one of the discs was duff. It actually turned out to be the hard disc controller on the motherboard (replaced by Dell about 3 weeks before the warranty expired), but the feeling of relief when I merely popped a replacement hard disc in and watched the system rebuild itself is hard fully describe.

If your data is important my advice is to get RAID. So much more reliable and timely than external backup solutions.

It was in the example you gave, that is relevant to this discussion, which is choosing between a Dell and an Apple laptop:-

Which is why I brought it up. In this specific example, not relevant.


I know, but in this example, you have told us the same applies for the Dell, so still only £20 in it, as you quoted!

Yes in both cases it would be cheaper to buy 8GB elsewhere, no disagreement there, but please, I'm pointing out this specific example.

The rest was a discussion for another thread that only ends up getting nasty. Do not want to go there again if we can avoid it please. We are actually in agreement!

Thanks for that Shaky, personally going for the speed options, hope my usual 'copy all photos to both machines, and do Time Machine backups on them both regularly' routine works ok for the data. Used to have an Alienware laptop that could had 2xHDDs and 2xDVD writers, so could have swapped out the DVDs and and 4 HDDs in there.Made sense at the time to try it out, but before I got round to it, it died for a 2nd time and would probably have cost a fortune to fix it ( and the LCD was going etc.

In between buying that laptop and replacing it, we bought the Mac Pro, so getting the MacBook Pro made more sense. It was great having all the options the Alienware machine had, but the compromise was that it was literally twice the weight as my current machine and the battery life was around 45 mins to an hour! The MacBook pro is around half the weight and half the thickness, but overall the compromise has worked out better for us.

@ Stefan

The thinking with the SSD is actually what you mentioned. Would be getting an SSD of around 128GB for the price / performance ratio and using that for the OS and applications then putting the 500 GB drive in a holder in place of the DVD drive for the data.

Seriously consider the Mac. I'd recommend that you buy a non-Mac commodity PC if you are planning to run Linux - esp. in Netherlands where you can get the "Microsoft Tax" back I've heard as long as you don't install Windoze. (90 Euro)

You say you want a course in Photography, not computing. So why go for a system which will require you to maintain it constantly (firewalls/malware scanners/patches by the bucket load/time consuming update process/SPs/driver updates/etc)? Linux and Mac are both real operating systems, and as such have security designed in. There is no comparison[/u].

Doubt school will let you run Linux exclusively, so your choice is Mac. And spend your time focussing on learning your chosen subject - not dealing with problematic software. So you save X euros. How much do you cost out your personal time? Figure out the expected life of this new system. Divide your euro/hour personal time valuation into the cost differential of the PC verus Mac. That'll be how many hours you can afford to spend doing "extra" work over the life of the system on keeping Windows "up." I doubt that it will be enough.

Just a few points that need making (or re-making):
- Does the school specify any type of laptop?
- Can you work with a glossy screen rather than a matt one?
- PCs can take hours per week to maintain.

You could - as an alternative - get an iMac (glossy screen, but OK at home) and a used Macbook / any PC-type laptop for school. The iMac would let you run Windows (Bootcamp lets you run one OS or the other, Parallels lets you run both and switch from one to the other).

I am not biased between PC and Apple. I run both (in both tower and laptop forms) but have to say that neither Apple has ever picked up a virus (or similar scumware). In fact I use one of the Apples to check out any "dubious" messages, knowing that if there is anything nasty inside, it was probably written for a PC.

I would start with the school requirements. Locally, one college requires that all students start with a film SLR before moving to digital. Another requires that all students start with a digital SLR.
Use the school requirements to set your first filters - then see what choices you have left.
Geoff

I know but what will that cost me to get the Mac version?

@Danny
There are several Raid versions you know.
There is also one that use 3 disks and have the back-up feature and the increased performance, and with that you will only the size off one disk. So 3 disks of 500GB will give you 1000GB with increased performance and security.
It doesn't sound so simply as I say now though so read more about it.
RAID 5 is the option you see the most but there is also RAID 3 and RAID 4.

btw RAID does increase input/output times so you might see an increase in performance with SSD but don't know if it's worth the money

You sure what you're saying there?
Mac is lacking behind in terms of security with Windows actually so if I'll use a Mac I would be even more sure to update everything and use a virus scanner certainly because some giants like Google are now mainly using Mac and some users don't think Mac needs a virus scan or is at risk. This can go so wrong.
Still Mac is more secure but it is not as secure as Windows.

Linux really isn't an option because I need to use Adobe products for the study.

The most problematic software I run is Adobe and that's exactly what we need to use and I've heard that software is more problematic on the Mac than on the PC

On some courses they say Mac but with others I see nothing, all the PC there's are Mac as well so they are Mac based. The main software they use is Photoshop and that's the same on both platform as far as I know.
I personally want a Matt one for outdoor use but normal glossy wouldn't be a problem if the screen can be set bright enough.
Not sure what you mean, never spend time maintaining Windows 7, could you give an example?

I can't shift system fully because I've windows programs that I like to keep on using and shifting system would cost me quite a lot off money so that's not an option.
Windows will be the main OS for me but if I go for a Mac then the Adobe software would be used on Mac OS but for the rest nothing.

It's digital only, they don't even have a darkroom on the campus.

You are so wrong here. There are 2 aspects to system security:

- How bad things can get if it gets infected, and
- How easy is it for the infections to get in.

Windoze scores abysmally at both. It is so bad it is as if was designed in (and it does sell more PC's!)

There is no operating system kernal in Wondows as such. In both Linux and OSX (which is also based on a Unix clone) there is a kernal (core) which is well protected against anything. Also - due to the Unix heritage - both have built-in firewalls. So both are so much better at both staving off the infectors and not succumbing to the infection that it is night and day. There is literally no way of comparing them. Oh, and they both employ the 1960's concept of separating data and code so that accidental and deliberate corruption is much, much harder.

On top of that the world's M$ mono-culture means that Windoze becomes a target (but it's so easy to attack IMHO it would be attacked even if it had never reached monopoly status).

Windoze infections are developed at a rate that is just unbelievable. Did you know that you can buy infection toolkits with support contracts!

There are virus scanners for OSX and Linux. They exist for only 2 reasons:
- Incremental revenue for anti-virus vendors
- Worth having in a managed eco-system where you don't want additional carriers even if they are immune, because it increases infection rates amoungst the poorer classes (Windoze users).

Note that there is no 3rd reason such as: needed!

There is 1 infection for OSX, but it has never left the lab. There are none for today's Linux that I'm aware of. Even if I'm out by a factor of 1,000's that still a faction of 1% of the Windows population!

Browsers are a special case, along with other software which has outgrown its roots: Flash and Reader. But those are OS independent these days, so select your browser with care and don't just default to the one that came with your OS.

Please use Windows if you have to, if you have to be in that monoculture - and some times we all have too - but please don't don't believe M$ FUD.

In the 2 years since I switched to Ubuntu, I estimate that I've saved well over 2 weeks of wasted Windoze nannying. I know 'cos I reluctantly still have to do that on my wife's XP system! Ubuntu? Under 2 days total, and that includes initial install, plus one major upgrade, half-a-dozen minor upgrades, and *daily* updates.

(Are you aware that the latest Windows scare, that 200+ apps are easily exploited, was notified to Microsoft 6 months ago. A work-around was released today, the same day that the researchers finally went public. Coincidence? If you don't think so, then I have a bridge in NY to sell you ... )