What makes an image?

So we say that Pentax have had an input to some of the sensor design and along with their software have produced excellent IQ. The D7000 and K5 seem very close in IQ and low noise to assume that they are common manufacture to two different standards though?

Do you have any links to Pentax input to the sensor manufacturing specs?

If true, then that's an extra strand in the DNA.

Best regards

Colour quality is a very important feature as far as I'm concerned. I did a photo shoot (PU Magazine, "Shooting Girls") with a friend of mine and the images from my Pentax were vibrant and warm. The images from his Fuji S2 were neutral and bland.

It's all part of the package and different marques behave quite differently in all sorts of ways. The digital SLR body is not a neutral, non-contributing link of the chain.

It is very interesting the way electronics are put together. Nobody does everything in house any more.

Just with the K10D as an example:

Processor: Fujitsu Milbeaut M-4 MB91680
Analogue to Digital converter: NuCore NDX-2240
Sensor: Sony 10MP CCD
LCD: (Likely to be Samsung)
RAM: Samsung DDR2

Shutter, and other components could come from anywhere.

Not forgetting that processing (PhotoShop, PSP, Lightrooom) and display (web, print) are all links in the chain.

To me what makes 'my system' is that it suits me. I like my camera to focus in a certain way, I like to use a certain strap because it works best for me, I like my bag because I find it comfortable, I like the lens choice I have because it allows me to take the photographs I want to take, I choose film or digital depending on what I am trying to do, etc.

The camera is one part of that equation. It is an important part but far from the only part. And if I could buy the same camera with a Lidl branding for half the price I wouldn't hestitate!

Surely, the K200D used the same sensor as the Nikon D80, yes? Or was it the other way round?

Geoff

That just isn't relevent. Pentax implemented the system in their cameras. If we're going to start debating the inception of concepts in the context of this discussion, we might as well argue that Pentax have no input at all, because they did not invent the concept of focusing light onto a photoreceptive surface through a system of lenses.

Which is where I disagree. In a modern camera system there's a whole lot more to it than that. Most of the 'features' I mentioned can have an effect on image quality. However your definition of image quality appears to vary from mine, in which case it becomes a matter of semantics. In my experience there's no point continuing to discuss it when that's what it boils down to so with respect I'll probably bow out about now.

The old mechanical shutters were generally made in-house, but when electronic, bladed, shutters came in, Pentax used Seiko shutters - as, I believe, did several other makes.

I've no idea who makes shutters now.

But there is much more to a camera body than the mechanisms it houses. The ergonomics and the aesthetic appeal are both very important. The former can make the difference between getting a picture and not getting it, and the latter plays a subtle role in all sorts of ways.

We buy more things than we care to admit on the basis of their looks. Cars, houses, clothes, wives, are all examples of items where aesthetics play a huge role in our buying decision. "Buying" of course is not exactly the right word for every item mentioned, but I am sure you get my drift.

I am a sucker for things that not only are good, but which also look good. Often, the former leads to the latter, but not always, as the spouses of good-looking film stars have sometimes found.

And talking of form and function, Pentax cameras are almost invariably both good-looking and a pleasure to use. So, excellent lenses are not the only reason to buy into the Pentax system.

G

PS: We'll draw a veil over the SFX when talking about good-looking cameras.

Presumably that just depends on the in-camera processing option you select, rather than the brand? Shooting RAW should level the playing field, at which point the sensor is the deciding factor.

Yeah, I cannot get the WB of a 5D Mkii to match that of a K10D. Two different beasts.

(was doing it to see if it was possible)

I know but we are deliberately excluding lenses, after all you can use a Pentax lens on a non-Pentax camera...

I was meaning the in camera settings: Vibrant. Portrait. Muted. I suspect that if you play with these settings you can replicate other brands, especially ones that share a sensor. However I think John's probably correct that there's some pre-processing applied even to RAW shots, and AWB / preset WB values can obviously vary (my K7 'daylight' setting is rather yellow for example).

Well, the OP WAS including lenses, but if you weren't then fair enough.

Canon pictures often have a brownish hue to them, and I have always wondered whether this came from the body or the lens.

G