To Shake or not to Shake

Hello all, I'm the latest newbie to the site, I would like to thank all for the depth of knowledge that has been passed on in these threads.

A quick question, I'm proud K10D owner, why does all the sources say to turn off shake reduction when using tripod?, what actually changes as I can see nothing obvious, apart from the fact you don't need it.

thanks again kerrowdown

Hi kerrowdown,
Welcome to the forum. I hope you enjoy your stay here.
To answer your question. You are not the first to ask, and believe me....,you won't be the last The general perception on the matter is: switch it of when you use a stable and sturdy tripod.
I personally haven't seen proof yet,why you should leave it of, when used on a tripod. But I think that any sensitive and precision part of a expensive tool like a DSLR is not worth it, to take any risk. Even if you think you see no difference. This is typical an issue were I blindly follow the advice of the camera makers. Who all say: DON"T use sr when used on a tripod. I don't want to be confronted with expensive repairs afterwards, even if it looks alright to do otherwise. And why would you, a tripod does the same. And laziness in thinking, just leave it on, is wrong. But I always work with a tripod.Period! And in the exceptional case I am without one, or are forbidden to use one, i am glad there is the possibility of in camera SR. I admit, It is OLD school talking here
Martin.

I agree with Martin about many things, but not on this occasion.

First it's important to note that in many of the cases where you'd be using the K10D on a tripod, the camera itself turns SR off.

So if you're using the self-timer, the 2s delay, remote control shooting, the remote 3s delay, bulb mode, or wireless with external flash, it's all done for you in any case - SR is off without having to touch a switch. Have a look at p68 of the manual.

If you really want to press the button yourself with the camera on a tripod, well, go ahead and switch the SR off as recommended in the manual if you like.

I don't, mostly because I never remember to.

The thing is, if you're going to press the button yourself, the likelihood is that the exposure will be longish, but still short enough to benefit from SR, even if the shake, if there is any, is being transmitted from your finger. If the exposure is very long, a little shake at the beginning will not be noticeable in the result, and for such very long exposures, chances are you're using one of the mirror-up options, for which, as I say, the camera switches SR off.

I've never seen the slightest evidence of any actual results justifying the recommendation in the manual, and although a number of people have speculated as to the reason it's included, it always seems to be arm-waving with very little basis in hard evidence to me.

You absolutely, definitely, will not cause any damage to the camera by leaving SR on. I've watched SR moving the sensor about with the lens off, and when it thinks it needs to move more than the bounds of its travel, it just gives up and lets the sensor fall under gravity.

Which is that quiet 'slide-thunk' you hear if you rotate the camera while holding it up to your ear.

I leave the sr off unless/until I know I need it.
reason:
I can see the difference. I have actually tested and found that in some instances, I'm losing sharpness on handheld shots in low light.
It seems that the camera tries to compensate, in areas where my hands are steady enough. (even started a thread on the subject).

you won't wreck anything if you leave it on, except for slightly softer images.

sr does work, when there is "Shake" for the "Shake Reduction" to counteract. It works by shaking the sensor, so it stands to reason, that if the camera is steady, and the sr decides to shake the sensor, you get a blury/softer image.

Yeah, now you come to mention it, I remember you said this. I tried to blank it out of my memory on the grounds that my head was in danger of exploding.

If it was anyone but you claiming this, Don, I'd say you were nuts.

But since it's you, I'm semi-inclined to reserve judgement on a claim that your hands are steadier than the tripods that Pentax say you shouldn't use SR with.

I'd like to see the evidence, though - including evidence that the results you're seeing aren't within the normal statistical variation of one's ability to hold a camera still.

PS... I do secretly suspect you're right. I've always been quite good at holding the thing steady too, and I've had occasions where I thought blimey, that's sharp, only to discover SR off. And others, where I thought, blimey, that's rubbish, only to discover that SR was on, just not as good at its job as it clearly is most of the time. Not conclusive though, so I still incline towards scepticism. Like the Catholic church, I guess, with Copernicus.

my results were with wide to normal lenses and exposure upto 1/2 sec.

https://www.pentaxuser.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7535&highlight=shake

ps people who know me say I'm nutz..
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And I've been getting sharp images in low light for enough years now, that when they started coming up slightly blurred, I had to investigate why.

sr definately works as advertised on the telephoto lenses!

Thing is Don, it's not good enough, to just say, 'I used to get result X', now I get result Y'.

This is a fairly extraordinary claim, and therefore one which needs relatively extraordinary evidence. Especially if the conditions required are low light and long exposures - which are notorious for giving variable results, SR or no SR.

What's needed is a systematic investigation, which must account for the fact that we don't always hold the camera equally steadily.

I must admit it's an interesting question, and I'm inclined to look into it myself. I ran the gauntlet of George's scorn when I broached the subject of the K10D's stop-down-metering problems here, so I guess I'll survive this one too.

Let me know how that goes.
I'm interested. That's why I started the other thread.

Well, until the two of you sort it out I think I stick to my routine, maybe because of the wrong reasons ( you make a good point Chris, in mentioning all the occasions the camera switches off SR) But again...,I seldom use lenses handhold. Good discussion though
Martin.

This is wierd. I was beginning to come to the same conclusion about SR. When it's turned off, I seem to get sharper images, especially on the 18-55 and my 43mm.
Hmmm.

Just an idea, but when we post pictures giving exif etc. it might be an idea if we put in there SR/OFF or SR/ON. Might just give us an idea of where it's making a difference, or not?

Just a thought...

I'm not sure it would reveal anything unless we see a lot of pictures from the same person at the same shutter speed, with and without SR.

Also you'd need to check that SR did activate (which you can do with PhotoMe). This doesn't happen unless you keep the shutter button half-pressed for half a second before firing, until the "hand" lights up.

I think SR does enable me to successfully hand-hold slower shutter speeds than I could otherwise.

I'll post at more length when I've refined my approach a bit, but I've done a very rough preliminary look, aimed more at choosing subjects and setups than a careful investigation into SR.

However, although I've seen no evidence of SR causing shake yet, with things set up right, I've found a very, very easy way of having SR produce much worse results than no-SR, with longish hand-held exposures (about 0.3s).

It's if you're using a non-AF lens, and set the SR focal length grossly wrong.

I used a 28mm SMC-A lens, but told the camera it was a 200mm.

The results with SR were appalling (so much worse that it was blatantly obvious even looking at the full frame on the camera LCD). Much worse than without SR.

When I set it back to 28, the results were better with SR than without, although I had to put the pictures on the computer to see this easily.

As I say, though, I'll post again when I've had a bit more of a careful look.

Thanks to ChrisA who answered my original question by reminding me that SR's off with the use self timer / remote anyway (I'm at that age now).