The K5 mic is awful! (or broken?)


DaveHolmes

Link Posted 04/12/2013 - 22:37
Been ages since I came on here and unfortunately it's for a winge!!


I recently tried to make a little video of my stepson making a beat in our mini recording studio (henceforth to be known as 'The Lab')...

The video looked really great but the sound quality was truly horrendous!

I ended up using my iPhone (so the video was shaky as hell) and the sound quality was infinitely improved...

Is the sound quality of the on-board mic really that bad or do I have a 'duf' one that requires repair?



I'm hoping to be able to record more video from 'The Lab' in the near future and would like it to be shot from the K5... I bought a hotshoe mounted mic a while back but it was a cheapo from Maplins and broke in my camera bag within a couple of months...
Any recommendations on how to get better sound in my videos? (I had thought about routing soundcard direct to mic-in on K5 - anyone done this?)


Cheers guys (and hope you're all well!!)
........................................................................
Digital:
Pentax K5- Vivitar 19mm 3.8; FA35mm f2; D-Xenon 100mm macro f2.8; DA50-200mm WR...
Flash:
Yongnuo YN-560; Vivitar 285HV; Cactus V4 triggers...
Film:
Pentax-MX & M50mm f1.4; Spottie & 55mm f1.8; MG & M40mm 2.8...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/daveholmesphotos/

Smeggypants

Link Posted 04/12/2013 - 23:43
You're probably better off using sound recorded off something else ( equipment in your 'Lab' for example ) and adding it in sync to the video.
[i]Bodies: 1x K-5IIs, 2x K-5, Sony TX-5, Nokia 808
Lenses: Pentax DA 10-17mm ED(IF) Fish Eye, Pentax DA 14mm f/2.8, Sigma 17-70mm f/2.8, Pentax-A 28mm f/2.8, Sigma 30mm F1.4 EX DC, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.2, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-FA 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.7, Pentax DA* 50-135mm f/2.8, Sigma 135-400mm APO DG, and more ..
Flash: AF-540FGZ, Vivitar 283

McGregNi

Link Posted 05/12/2013 - 00:47
Thats the pro way to go, but I'm surprised it was as bad as you describe, even with the humble built in mono mic. I've recorded many hours of 'home video' indoors and in all sorts of outdoor environments, and I usually use a hotshoe stereo mic, to superb effect.

The built in is usually OK, clear but lacking the deep presence and surround-sound clarity of the accessory mic. The biggest problem with the built-in is wind noise, which is impossible to control, whereas the hotshoe mic has a 'wind-sock' cover for this.

A hotshoe mic is an easy gain for us, not too expensive. I use a Polaroid branded one, about £40, and excellent value at that. Maybe there is a technical issue with your camera mic, or maybe the sound levels were too high for it to cope with?
My Guides to the Pentax Digital Camera Flash Lighting System : Download here from the PentaxForums Homepage Article .... link
Pentax K7 with BG-4 Grip / Samyang 14mm f2.8 ED AS IF UMC / DA18-55mm f3.5-5.6 AL WR / SMC A28mm f2.8 / D FA 28-105mm / SMC F35-70 f3.5-4.5 / SMC A50mm f1.7 / Tamron AF70-300mm f4-5.6 Di LD macro / SMC M75-150mm f4.0 / Tamron Adaptall (CT-135) 135mm f2.8 / Asahi Takumar-A 2X tele-converter / Pentax AF-540FGZ (I & II) Flashes / Cactus RF60/X Flashes & V6/V6II Transceiver

Smeggypants

Link Posted 05/12/2013 - 02:51
McGregNi wrote:
Thats the pro way to go, but I'm surprised it was as bad as you describe, even with the humble built in mono mic. I've recorded many hours of 'home video' indoors and in all sorts of outdoor environments, and I usually use a hotshoe stereo mic, to superb effect.

The built in is usually OK, clear but lacking the deep presence and surround-sound clarity of the accessory mic. The biggest problem with the built-in is wind noise, which is impossible to control, whereas the hotshoe mic has a 'wind-sock' cover for this.

A hotshoe mic is an easy gain for us, not too expensive. I use a Polaroid branded one, about £40, and excellent value at that. Maybe there is a technical issue with your camera mic, or maybe the sound levels were too high for it to cope with?

Good point. There's not going to be a huge amount of headroom from a camera with a 7V battery
[i]Bodies: 1x K-5IIs, 2x K-5, Sony TX-5, Nokia 808
Lenses: Pentax DA 10-17mm ED(IF) Fish Eye, Pentax DA 14mm f/2.8, Sigma 17-70mm f/2.8, Pentax-A 28mm f/2.8, Sigma 30mm F1.4 EX DC, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.2, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-FA 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.7, Pentax DA* 50-135mm f/2.8, Sigma 135-400mm APO DG, and more ..
Flash: AF-540FGZ, Vivitar 283

dpm

Link Posted 05/12/2013 - 07:11
what has battery voltage got to do with headroom?

Dave, get another external mic. Simple.

Smeggypants

Link Posted 05/12/2013 - 07:24
dpm wrote:
what has battery voltage got to do with headroom?


A lot. The voltage of the PSU determines the max signal voltage. as an example ... Pro audio gear that has PSU voltages of +/-18v ( 36v peak to peak ) has a lot more headroom than prosumer Audio gear at +/-12V ( 24v p-p ) and a helluva lot more than battery operated equipment of +9V or +7V
[i]Bodies: 1x K-5IIs, 2x K-5, Sony TX-5, Nokia 808
Lenses: Pentax DA 10-17mm ED(IF) Fish Eye, Pentax DA 14mm f/2.8, Sigma 17-70mm f/2.8, Pentax-A 28mm f/2.8, Sigma 30mm F1.4 EX DC, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.2, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-FA 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.7, Pentax DA* 50-135mm f/2.8, Sigma 135-400mm APO DG, and more ..
Flash: AF-540FGZ, Vivitar 283

gartmore

Link Posted 05/12/2013 - 08:34
Why dont you post it on youtube and link here? I'm surprised it is as bad as you describe. I shot a couple of records of one of our Guide Dog puppies working in harness with my Q and was astonished at how much better the sound was than I had expected. In fact remarkably free of wind noise in particular.
Ken
“We must avoid however, snapping away, shooting quickly and without thought, overloading ourselves with unnecessary images that clutter our memory and diminish the clarity of the whole.” - Henri Cartier-Bresson -

McGregNi

Link Posted 05/12/2013 - 09:22
Ken, I think the K7 / K5 models are a little poorly placed in this regard - the location of the on-board mic is in a particular 'aerodynamic hotspot', with any front approaching airflow racing up and over the top of the camera, and consequently straight across the mic holes. Maybe the Q mic location is better and avoids this?

Without wind I still find the K7 on-board mic very good, so long as you are happy with mono. It does seem likely that Dave's issues are caused either by a fault or excessive & / or very close loud sound, and the limited voltage as pointed out. I haven't used a K5, but I'm not aware of any difference at all between that model and the K7 as far as the mic and sound recording goes.
My Guides to the Pentax Digital Camera Flash Lighting System : Download here from the PentaxForums Homepage Article .... link
Pentax K7 with BG-4 Grip / Samyang 14mm f2.8 ED AS IF UMC / DA18-55mm f3.5-5.6 AL WR / SMC A28mm f2.8 / D FA 28-105mm / SMC F35-70 f3.5-4.5 / SMC A50mm f1.7 / Tamron AF70-300mm f4-5.6 Di LD macro / SMC M75-150mm f4.0 / Tamron Adaptall (CT-135) 135mm f2.8 / Asahi Takumar-A 2X tele-converter / Pentax AF-540FGZ (I & II) Flashes / Cactus RF60/X Flashes & V6/V6II Transceiver

dpm

Link Posted 05/12/2013 - 09:37
I'd contend that if you need *that much* headroom you're doing it wrong Smeggy.

You're not going to get an output from an electret that's higher than it's supply- the inbuilt FET sees to that- but if using (say) a pro phantom-powered condenser into a consumer-level input without any conditioning inbetween then you'll have problems.

http://www.performing-musician.com/pm/aug09/articles/technotes.htm

johnriley

Link Posted 05/12/2013 - 09:56
We've seen plenty of YouTube videos where the built in mike isn't a problem, so I would think something is amiss.

Just check out another camera, perhaps at a dealer, to establish if there is a problem with yours?
Best regards, John

Smeggypants

Link Posted 05/12/2013 - 12:10
dpm wrote:
I'd contend that if you need *that much* headroom you're doing it wrong Smeggy.

It's not a question of "needing" more headroom in terms of clipping, but rather, as distortion %'s rise the closer you get to the max then gear with higher PSU voltages and thus high headroom means lower distortion at nominal levels. that's why pro-gear generally uses higher PSU supplies. Of course someone driving audio gear well above 0dBu is indeed doing it wrong.

I was just passing on my experience as a once professional audio engineer as to why supply voltages are relevant to headroom in audio equipment to answer your question as to why battery voltage is relevant to headroom.

Anyway the discussion on headroom only stems from Nigel's guess that the audio recording might be overloaded.

That might not even be the case. The audio quality of his video might be 'rubbish' because of the acoustics of the room, particularly if the K-5's mic has a wide pickup pattern and the room is particularly reflective and resonant.

Until we get to hear a sample then it's all guess work
[i]Bodies: 1x K-5IIs, 2x K-5, Sony TX-5, Nokia 808
Lenses: Pentax DA 10-17mm ED(IF) Fish Eye, Pentax DA 14mm f/2.8, Sigma 17-70mm f/2.8, Pentax-A 28mm f/2.8, Sigma 30mm F1.4 EX DC, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.2, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-FA 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.7, Pentax DA* 50-135mm f/2.8, Sigma 135-400mm APO DG, and more ..
Flash: AF-540FGZ, Vivitar 283

Gravelrash

Link Posted 05/12/2013 - 12:48
I have shot a couple of videos of my wife singing in performance using my K-r and although I didn't care for the video I was amazed by the built in mic's ability to cope with what was a real din within a confined space. 1000 watt Amp in a pub!

I can't imagine a working K-5 to be worse, would expect better.

link
Steve

Sometimes I'm serious and sometimes not, but I consider sarcasm an artform. Which is it today?

DaveHolmes

Link Posted 20/12/2013 - 00:26
Just to let you all know...

I've tried a few videos on the K5 now at varying levels of volume and come to the conclusion that the on-board mic on my K5 must have a fault of some kind... It's a little bit gutting but I don't think it's worth sending in for a repair and being without my camera for god knows how long!!

My workaround has been to send the left & right outputs on my audio interface to the 'mic in' on the K5 and use headphones to monitor... I'm probably going to need an interface with more outputs at some point but that has always been part of the plan anyway so no bad thing...
........................................................................
Digital:
Pentax K5- Vivitar 19mm 3.8; FA35mm f2; D-Xenon 100mm macro f2.8; DA50-200mm WR...
Flash:
Yongnuo YN-560; Vivitar 285HV; Cactus V4 triggers...
Film:
Pentax-MX & M50mm f1.4; Spottie & 55mm f1.8; MG & M40mm 2.8...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/daveholmesphotos/

DaveHolmes

Link Posted 20/12/2013 - 00:31
Smeggypants wrote:


The audio quality of his video might be 'rubbish' because of the acoustics of the room, particularly if the K-5's mic has a wide pickup pattern and the room is particularly reflective and resonant.


As a side note... My mixes are pretty dire because of the room... Very small, very square and sadly lacking in badly needed acoustic panels/basstraps etc...
........................................................................
Digital:
Pentax K5- Vivitar 19mm 3.8; FA35mm f2; D-Xenon 100mm macro f2.8; DA50-200mm WR...
Flash:
Yongnuo YN-560; Vivitar 285HV; Cactus V4 triggers...
Film:
Pentax-MX & M50mm f1.4; Spottie & 55mm f1.8; MG & M40mm 2.8...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/daveholmesphotos/

sbrads

Link Posted 20/12/2013 - 07:20
I presume the K5 mic is waterproof to a certain level, but water could easily get trapped under the tiny holes and badly affect sound quality. Been shooting in the rain lately?
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