The definitive ND Grad thread?!

I know this is a well worn theme in this forum (and others!). However, in trying to choose which grads to get, I still am struggling to find information from the many threads on the subject which is complete enough for me to come to a final conclusion. So I thought it might be useful to attempt to start a thread which includes ALL (or as much as possible) the info required by someone looking for advice on ND Grads.

First, I will outline what I have gleaned from numerous trawls through this and other forums on and off over the past 6 months. I think I probably have acquired a fair bit of info on the subject, but there are important gaps in my knowledge as set out below (some of which will be obvious), so please fill any gaps in posts below in order for the thread to live up to its title!

Right in ascending quality the ND Grad options appear to be as follows:

1. Circular screw-in ‘normal’ filters.
Pros: Portable and easy to fit on the lens
Cons: Only fit one lens (without adaptor) and more seriously they are compositionally restrictive as the graduation is fixed (in the centre) and cannot be adjusted up and down to correspond with the placing of the horizon.

2. Cokin A System (I haven’t looked at this system really so the pros & cons may well be incomplete)
Pros: Price, filter holder fits all lens sizes (with adaptor), and more adjustable than circular filters (the last two points are true of all the systems below)
Cons: Not truly ND as there is a colour cast (magenta); this system also, if I’m not mistaken, causes vignetting from a narrower angle than more expensive ones (though I don’t know when this begins to be a problem – does anyone else know this?)

3. Cokin P System
Pros: Price, availability, better than A system & more adjustable than 1. Or 2. (as the filters are larger, they are presumably more adjustable than the A system ones?). There are also many accessories available (including a filter holder for very wide lenses - 12mm? & below – and lens hoods, caps etc.). The P system seems to be the most common consumer choice.
Cons: Like the A System (though not as bad?) there is still a colour cast, though this is serious only when more than one filter is used(?).

4. Hitech 85 Filters for the Cokin P fit
Pros: Price (slightly cheaper than Cokin P) and as above in 3. Also I have seen some claims that the colour cast is not as strong as with the Cokin filters (though perhaps these refer to the 100 filters).
Cons: On the other hand I have also seen comments that the cast is no different to Cokin Ps.

5. Kood P Series for the Cokin P fit (available through some ebay sellers – eg. Surrey Photographic Supplies)
Pros: Price (you can get each filter for £6.99 + p & p; and cheaper holders & accessories) & possibly others – though I have found very little feedback on Kood filters. Can anyone help out here?
Cons: See Pros.

6. Cokin Z-Pro System
Pros: Colour cast almost gone; cheaper than 7; more adjustable than 1-5; less danger of vignetting than 1-5.
Cons: Filters expensive at ca. £40 a shot; holder, adaptors & accessories also considerably more expensive than 1-5; colour cast not gone entirely; all filters from 6 on are larger and hence more cumbersome.

7. Cokin X-Pro System
Pros & cons: I’m not sure exactly how the X-Pro differs from the Z-Pro, but they are more expensive and presumably better. Otherwise I think the pros & cons are similar to 6.

8. Hitech 100 filters (not sure which system they fit – on the Teamwork (the manufacturers retail arm?) website they state that they fit the P System but this must be a mistake as they measure 100x120mm)
Pros: Price (set of three = £59 (ex. VAT); as indicated above I’ve seen numerous claims that Hitech filters do not have the colour cast problem of Cokins (though perhaps this is only true when comparing the 100s to the Ps rather than the Z or X-Pros?).
Cons: Don’t know?

9. Lee Filter System
Pros: The first system mentioned which are truly ND with no colour cast
Cons: Price (kits with 1 filter & holder) start at £110; also some say that they are not as good with blue skies as Cokins.

10. Singh Ray System – appears to be the acme of ND Grads but I have found no info on them through Google UK. If I’m not mistaken they’re made of glass, which makes them less scratch prone than all of the above (resin based filters) – but also more cumbersome(?). I assume they are even more expensive than Lee.

11. Digital editing There probably is one final option that I should mention, which happens to be the cheapest of the lot as it requires only time and not money – merging multiple exposures (for static shots with a tripod) or different files acquired from a single RAW shot in Photoshop, GIMP, PSP, Elements etc.
Pros: It’s free; more convenient than carrying around filters and accessories; in cases where the areas that you want differently exposed are not at all straight this is a more viable option than grads (hard or soft – see below).
Cons: Merging exposures can be time consuming; some claim that more detail is retained through the use of ND grads; results readily accessible through camera LCD.

There is one other thing I should mention. In most cases ND Grads come in both Hard and Soft forms (as far as I’m aware this is true of all the filters mentioned above apart from Cokin As). The Hard are for shots in which the transition between the two areas of the shot is a clear line (such as a sea horizon); the Soft are used when you do not want such a sudden transition.

Right, that’s the present state of my knowledge. If fellow Pentaxians can add to this it will no doubt be useful to not only me but also other Forum users. From a personal point of view, I’m particularly interested in feedback about the merits of the Kood P and Hitech 85 (and to a lesser extent 100) systems.

Great summary Mhuni

Hope you don't mind I've just bolded up the names and given some spacing to make it easier to read.

Wow Pete, what a gentleman. Can you keep an eye on my posts from here on end

But you are right, when I first saw the post I thought i would save it for a rainy day, but now its much easier to read. cheers to you.

I use a mix of Cokin P and Kood P-filters. (Cokin filter holder and cap)

I have not yet seen any difference from a Cokin or Kood grad filter. But on the other hand - I have not used them as much as I wanted.

But from a couple of hundred shots I have not seen anything to comment on. (I have 3 kood grads and 2 cokin grads)

I like the filter holder system as you can use several filters. So far I have played a lot with a polariser(circular) with 2 ND or ND grads. Great fun!

Hope it helps a bit.

Cheers Peter - it is much clearer now (though I'm not so sure about the content:lol.

Digital processing is obviously capable of dealing pretty effectively with colour casts.

But where you have a bright sky and a dark foreground, digital will not cope as well as an ND grad, unless you use multiple exposures - which is more time-consuming.

So I think ND grads are a useful addition to the digital snapper's arsenal, and the colour cast problem isn't much of a problem at all.

For most purposes, the Cokin P system is good and cost-effective.

G

I have to say that I'm not aware of any magenta cast from Cokin filters

Just stack two filters together and you'll see it Just look through with your eyes and it's very red/magenta!
I have found the Kood, HiTech, and Cokin P all have this cast. The Cokin Z-Pro are better, but not completely free of magenta cast.
That said, sometimes the colour cast adds to the shot
Matt

Matt, I've just tried that and there is absolutely no colour cast! That said, my filters are maybe 25 years old so perhaps only new ones have a magenta tinge.

Taken in the last few minutes and then realised that the sun is setting and indeed the clouds are turning pink!

Cokin 120 and 121 stacked

Ahh, that's where I've been going wrong all these years, I generally use my nose!

Dan

Tiffen filters should be mentioned here, we use them in TV work but they aren't cheap for a 4x4 or 4x6, around the £150 mark. They make filters for stills cameras too.

link

Ah! Interesting The current crop do. Are yours glass ones?

Ha ha ha I meant that you can see it without having to put it on the camera etc

Matt

If anything, my Cokin P ND grad has a greenish tinge to it. That is probably about 10 years old at least (bought S/H at a camera fair about 7 or 8 years ago I think).

It's probably safe to say there's some variation over the years.

Dan

No, they aren't glass but resin. It is worth following the Tiffen link to see how their's are manufactured - and why they cost a small fortune, which makes the cost of Pentax lenses, any Pentax lens, seem such astonishingly good value. You could get 5 of the much maligned (wrongly IMO) 18-55 for the price of an off-the-shelf Tiffen filter.

Ken