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Sunny 16.

mowog
Posted 09/08/2010 - 19:41 Link
An old photographic rule of thumb. "The Sunny 16 Rule", states that you can set a reasonably accurate exposure, without having an exposure meter of any kind. It goes something like this:

On a bright sunny day, you set the aperture to f16 and the shutter speed to the same number as the film speed in the camera. EG. You have 400ISO film loaded, so the correct exposure, for a sunny day, would be 400th of a second at f16. But, most cameras don't have a 400th of a second setting, so you use the closest, which is 500th. Once you know this, you can adapt the rule for other lighting conditions. If it's cloudy, then use f11 instead of f16, If it's very dull and overcast, use f.5.6 and so on. - Now, what the hell has all this ancient cobblers got to do with modern photography?. Cameras have had built in meters for decades. Modern digital cameras have incredibly sensitive an accurate multi patterned exposure modes. Why still use Sunny 16?

Because it's fun, that's why! - This afternoon, I spent an enjoyable hour with my istD set on M and an old manual focus lens on the front, trying to work out the correct exposure for a number of different situations, using the Sunny 16 rule. - It works! In the old days of film, you would have to try it, then wait until the negs were developed before you could see it worked. But now, with our digital cameras, we can see instantly, on the little screen on the back, that it works!

It is strangely satisfying to know how to take a photo, in any lighting condition, without a light meter. It makes you feel like a proper photographer. For the next couple of weeks, I am only going to shoot on M, using the sunny 16 rule. I will do it until it becomes second nature. I want to be able to set an accurate exposure, just by looking at the light, and know instantly what to set. Not required for modern film or digi photography, of course, but for those of us who like to bugger about with old, meterless cameras, it's a good thing to know.

Try it yourselves. - It's fun trying to outsmart your camera!
No man is worth his salt, who has not been banned from at least one Forum, and two Flickr groups.

Mowog.
Edited by mowog: 09/08/2010 - 19:45
Algernon
Posted 09/08/2010 - 20:05 Link
I've used the "The Sunny 16 Rule" for years. Much more
accurate than any exposure meter.
Half Man... Half Pentax ... Half Cucumber

Pentax K-1 + K-5 and some other stuff

Algi
Anvh
Posted 09/08/2010 - 20:16 Link
Somehow I don't believe you Mowog...
Sunny 16 rule???? I would claim it all to be experience to be honest because when is it even sunny in Britain to begin with?

I use now manual mode a lot because that way you can batch process your photos cutting the processing time to 1/5th compared to without it.
And it's indeed very satisfying to go and judge the exposure with your eye and just nail it with the first shot, it only happened to my once so far.
Stefan
Comment Image

K10D, K5
DA* 16-50, DA* 50-135, D-FA 100 Macro, DA 40 Ltd, DA 18-55
AF-540FGZ
Edited by Anvh: 09/08/2010 - 20:44
Algernon
Posted 09/08/2010 - 20:31 Link
Algernon wrote:
I've used the "The Sunny 16 Rule" for years. Much more accurate than any exposure meter.

Also about the best way to test if an exposure meter is accurate, especially an incident light meter.
Half Man... Half Pentax ... Half Cucumber

Pentax K-1 + K-5 and some other stuff

Algi
Edited by Algernon: 09/08/2010 - 20:47
Gwyn
Posted 09/08/2010 - 20:39 Link
And for when it isn't sunny:

http://www.fredparker.com/ultexp1.htm
mowog
Posted 09/08/2010 - 20:40 Link
It was very sunny in my bit of Britain today, Stefan.

I've known about the sunny 16 rule since I took up photography 25 years ago, but as I've always had metered cameras, I never bothered learning it. Ironic then, that now I have loads of metered cameras, both film and digital, and four handheld meters, I want to be able to do without a meter.

In fact, I'm going to write to Mr Pentax, and ask him to make a manual only, meterless digital camera, with a mechanical shutter and K mount on the front. Two inch screen on the back, and a big sensor, inside.
No man is worth his salt, who has not been banned from at least one Forum, and two Flickr groups.

Mowog.
Anvh
Posted 09/08/2010 - 20:54 Link
mowog wrote:
It was very sunny in my bit of Britain today, Stefan.

With the emphasis on was

But do you really use the sunny 16 settings, they sound quite strange to me although ISO 400 is a good range for the K-X but most current lenses are the sharpest at f/5.6 to f/8.

You think Pentax will take you serious? If so ask for a leafshutter!!!!
Stefan
Comment Image

K10D, K5
DA* 16-50, DA* 50-135, D-FA 100 Macro, DA 40 Ltd, DA 18-55
AF-540FGZ
Edited by Anvh: 09/08/2010 - 20:54
mowog
Posted 09/08/2010 - 21:55 Link
You don't have to use f16 all the time, Stefan. It's a standard. A benchmark, from which to calculate. If you wanted to use f5.6 in that situation, you would set that aperture and alter the shutter speed to give the right exposure. - In this case, f5.6 at 4000th of a second. Same exposure, made from different settings... It's still the Sunny 16 setting.
No man is worth his salt, who has not been banned from at least one Forum, and two Flickr groups.

Mowog.
terje-l
Posted 09/08/2010 - 22:14 Link
mowog wrote:
Try it yourselves. - It's fun trying to outsmart your camera!

I certainly will, just haven't really thought about it with all this fancy electonics about. Sounds fun.
Best regards
Terry

K20D, Optio I10, DA 18-55 1:3.5-5.6 AL II, A 1:1.7/50, D FA 1:2.8/100 Macro, Sigma 70-300 1:4-5.6 APO DG Macro, Pentax AF 360FGZ
Don
Posted 09/08/2010 - 22:42 Link
I use the sunny sixteen rule all the time.

the point being your brain can always compare notes with what the camera meter is saying, and if the exposure ain't right, you should know what to do to fix it.

Ideally, with practice, you should know (with reasonable accuracy) what your exposure should be, then check the camera meter to verify it jives then shoot. Then check your results and make decisions from there on fine tuning....


I caught Gerri making a mistake last week...
she left the iso on one camera at 1600....
I picked up the camera later (we have a default rule where we're supposed to set the camera to certain settings BEFORE we set it down or put it away) and knew instantly the shutter speed was waaaayyy out of whack for f8 in the sunshine outdoors...
would've missed my elk shot for sure if I hadn't caught it immediately.
Fired many shots. Didn't kill anything.
Edited by Don: 09/08/2010 - 22:47
simonkit
Posted 10/08/2010 - 10:46 Link
It's always intersting to read tips like this for us "newbies", only having taken up photography since digital appeared. The sunny 16 is something I read about when I first picked up a camera a year or two ago in 2007 (In Bryan Petersons 'understanding exposure' book if I remember correctly) but must admit to never having felt the need to use it, being honest I probably still won't - still good to be reminded about it though !!

Simon
Don
Posted 10/08/2010 - 13:17 Link
it is also important to remember WHY it works and why it is good to know....

the sun is a constant.... it is hitting the Earth with roughly the same amount of light every day from space (weather not withstanding).
It was the basis, the set standard for measuring light.
all films, then later all meters, then later all electronic devices were designed on the basis that the most likely source of bright, natural light, it will get from a scene on this planet, is a Sunny day, with the sun behind you.

All standards for metering and photography, are based on this assumption.

It is like knowing how to read the stars.
The North star is a constant. Then came star maps, then compasses, then gps...
and we all know magnets, and the earths magnetic field can cause a compass to mislead... software, radio interference, aurora borealis can interfere with satellite transmissions and enemies can now shoot down satellites... if your compass or gps fails, you wait for a clear night and look for the north star.

same deal with photography....
if all your fancy crap fails or is fooled or misled... you always got sunny sixteen to fall back on.
Fired many shots. Didn't kill anything.
Anvh
Posted 10/08/2010 - 16:46 Link
mowog wrote:
You don't have to use f16 all the time, Stefan. It's a standard. A benchmark, from which to calculate.

You're right but with exposure I work full on my experience and intuition which you get when you're working manually because your are more consciousness with your settings.
Only when I do have my exposure I'll resort to math to keep the exposure the same at all times when changing settings and when using flash.

The sunny 16 is just too restrictive with all the variables off weather and time to be useful I think, it's not something I would promote you should learn because I believe that getting the feeling about exposure is more important.
You for example also fall back on experience with your first comment when you talked about when it's cloudy.
Stefan
Comment Image

K10D, K5
DA* 16-50, DA* 50-135, D-FA 100 Macro, DA 40 Ltd, DA 18-55
AF-540FGZ
Edited by Anvh: 10/08/2010 - 16:46
gartmore
Posted 10/08/2010 - 17:48 Link
My training in cinemaography was always to be able to judge the exposure by eye. Certainly with a usually fixed shutter speed of 1/50th and a limited couple of film stocks made things a little easier than the variables availble now.

The DoP would ask you to put the stop on without you even looking at a meter and you'd better get it right! Good training.
Ken
“We must avoid however, snapping away, shooting quickly and without thought, overloading ourselves with unnecessary images that clutter our memory and diminish the clarity of the whole.” - Henri Cartier-Bresson -
terje-l
Posted 10/08/2010 - 22:56 Link
Anvh wrote:
The sunny 16 is just too restrictive with all the variables off weather and time to be useful I think, it's not something I would promote you should learn because I believe that getting the feeling about exposure is more important.

But, the Sunny 16 is all about getting the feeling about exposure. Nothing contradictory there. It is the starting point from which you adjust according to your requirements.
Best regards
Terry

K20D, Optio I10, DA 18-55 1:3.5-5.6 AL II, A 1:1.7/50, D FA 1:2.8/100 Macro, Sigma 70-300 1:4-5.6 APO DG Macro, Pentax AF 360FGZ

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