Sports Photography settings and which teleconverter ist DL

Hi following on from a previous thread concerning zoom lens for a Pentax ist DL. I have bought the Tamron 70-300 1:4 - 5.6 Tamron lens which I am pleased with. I wanted a sigma 70-200 but Jessops cannot lay there hands on one and I cannot afford it at the moment anyhow!

I am very pleased with the lens but the picture is a bit grainy when on full zoom. I suspect this was because of my “newbie” settings i.e. .Auto Pic and 3200 iso, as well as the poor lighting, and distance I was away from the pitch(second tier) at Twickenham Rugby Stadium this Sunday. Can anyone throw any light (excuse the pun) on what settings I should be aiming at? I know I was doing it wrong as I didn’t need a monopod!
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Not put off, I am now looking for a teleconverter. I suspect that this may be impractical. I would like an x2 but wonder whether the picture will now be too dark and whether AF will still work? Can anyone suggest whether a teleconverter will still work in AF and if so which sort I should be looking for?

Any advice will be very welcome.

John.

The grain issue is certainy due to the ISO setting and lighting conditions. 3200 ISO is a tad too fast in my opinion. I'm sure you have shot more sports scenes than I have (a few cars at Brands Hatch is all I've done) but the scenario you describe generally requires a compromise based upon the minimum shutter speed you can get away with (which is usually the reciprocal of the lens length IE: a 300mm lens needs at least 1/300th of a second'ish shutter speed). Then, if your chosen lens produces well defined shots with a wide open aperture (or maybe closed down a stop or 2 to give you a bit to play with and also taking DOF into account), tweak the ISO down to the minimum setting that still produces a correct exposure. This procedure will produce the minimum noise/grain for any given low light scenario. Unless of course, you really do want a grainy result, which you might.

Also, make sure you have noise cancellation turned on in the menu.

I think its worth remembering that most cameras auto settings generally work pretty well within their "average conditions" envelope. When the occasion takes you out of this performance envelope towards the extremes of low/high light, short/long distances etc., Its maybe time to switch to manual and take some control yourself.

Sorry I can't answer your teleconverter question as I don't know of any. I'm sure somebody will be along soon who does though.

Good luck with the lens.

Hi John,

I use 2x converters, but manual ones. For AF, although I've not used one, the Pentax 1.7x AF converter seems to be the popular choice here, and because the converter itself focusses internally regardless of lens, it can also be used for AF with manual lenses.. within certain parameters anyway.

If you use a 2x converter, you're effectively giving away 2 stops worth of light. This means that at the long end of your 70-300 even wide open, the minimum f-stop is going to be equivalent to F11. That will be dark.. and slow. In theory, 300mm (focal length) is meant to be at about the limit for hand holding (at 1/300 sec (big ish)), and at F11, you really will want a bright subject to have much chance of a good shot without the extra stability of a tripod or monopod.

Of course, using the DL, that's means a 450mm focal length, and 1/500 sec at F11.

I'm sure I started out with the intention of writing that in English.. but now, I'm not so sure.

I think that's right anyway, but I stand to be corrected.

Cheers

Liam

On any DSLR, the quality deteriorates as the ISO rises.

For best results you need to use 200. 400 is almost as good, and 800 is not bad, but noticeably worse than the other two.

1600 and 3200 are only for use in extremis. Quality is poor, and in the case of 3200, very poor.

What you are seeing is not grain, but "noise" - the failure of the sensor to record the colour and intensity of the light correctly (because it's in a bit of a rush!).

Getting a tele-convertor will just make things worse because you will lose two stops, and have to reduce your shutter speed.

This is why people spend a lot of money for fast lenses!

See if you can get away with using the camera on 800 ISO and with the lens wide-open - use Av mode. Good long lenses are good wide-open, but I can't speak for your Tamron.

The 1.7 teleconvertor is excellent, but it won't work with slow lenses, like yours. You'll have to focus manually.

Good luck.

G

Thanks chaps. Steep learning curve here.I appreciate the help.

John.

I have just come back from trial and error session with a moving subject running about the garden. Camera struggled at auto picture 800...blur. Things were worse in AV 800 iso as suspected and the best results were 3200 auto pic .I didnt try 1600.

Please eexcuse my ignorance. I do try things and read the manual and other forums before asking what are probably annoying questions to the expert.

I still haven't got my head around shutter speed. Is this independent to aperture? My manual at page 127 does not help me so I do not know if there should be a setting here I am blisfully unaware of...perhaps in manual mode?

John.

I find when shooting sports scenes that it is easiest to use Shutter Priority mode (Tv) and set a speed of 1/125 or quicker. I let the camera figure out the aperture, and since v2 of the firmware for my DS, I let it choose the ISO settings (never more than 800 though).

I take a lot of photos at orienteering events, which often take place in woodland under variable lighting conditions and these seem to work well. A good flash unit if you are close to the action helps as well.

You also need to get into the habit of panning to follow the action, and to keep tracking while you press the shutter button, so that the image remains in shot (unless you want the speed blur effect)

I've a few pictures here http://www.ammonyte.plus.com/galleries/tops/index.html

But hey, you are now only paying for electricity, so shoot lots, experiment lots, play with all the settings and enjoy! Good luck.

P.S. a tutorial about aperture and exposure can be found here http://www.photonhead.com/exposure/exposure.php

Where do we start ?

Yes, shutter speed is independent of aperture. The correct combination of the 2 results in correct exposure at a given ISO setting.

When you set your camera to AV (aperture priority) mode, you determine the aperture setting manually and the camera selects the shutter speed to achieve correct exposure.

The opposite is true if you have your camera set to Tv (shutter priority) mode where you set the shutter speed and the camera chooses the right aperture setting to achieve correct exposure. In manual, you have to set both, and you rely on the manual meter display to select the right combination to achieve the correct exposue.

In Auto, The camera sets both aperture and shutter speed according to a pre-programmed envelope which is mostly dependent on available light. You will have to study your cameras manual and the pretty curve drawings to determine what happens in the various Programmed modes.

This lesson could get (and is) a lot more complicated, but I'll leave you to digest that information for a while and play with your camera.

Whatever happens, have fun and keep experimenting, it'll all 'click' into place one-day. Pun intended.

Hi John,

OK, so I'm no expert.. but you'll find most if not all here go by the adage "there's no such thing as a stupid question; only a stupid answer".

Everyone here had to pick up a camera for the first time.. at some time.

Right, shutter speed. It's directly proportional to aperture. The following for instance let the same amount of light on to the sensor/film.

Aperture ____ Shutter Speed (fractions of a second)

F1.2 ________ 1/4000
F1.4 ________ 1/2000
F1.7 ________ 1/1000
F2 __________ 1/500
F2.8 ________ 1/250
F4 __________ 1/125
F5.6 ________ 1/60
F8 __________ 1/30
F11 _________ 1/15
F16 _________ 1/8
F22 _________ 1/4

The above figures are for reference only, as changing the ISO number from 200 to 400 will change the aperture No. to the next fastest, ie. from F2 to F2.8; or the shutter speed down, say from 1/250th to 1/500th of a second.

All the above numbers are only shown as an example, as you may be in very low light conditions, and for a given aperture of F8 at ISO 200, you may need a shutter speed of as slow as 1/4sec or slower. BUT, the above still stands, in that at that level of light, changing the aperture to F2.8, means that the shutter speed will need to increase to 1/30 sec (three whole increments), to let the same amount of light reach the sensor/film. Of course, you can fine tune the EV (exposure value) of that by increments of 1/3 or 1/2 a stop to get the exact exposure, and with the *ist D range, you can adjust that either in camera or after the shot has been taken, by using Paintshop, or whichever software you have on your computer.

Oops, I'm late now.. but I hope you get the idea, and remember.. keep asking. It's a long time since I've had to remember the absolute basics, and that's always going to be a good thing.

Cheers

Liam

Not bad.. I took long enough writing that for two iof you to post first.

Edited.. 'cos I'm daft.

Basic photography course, Part 1.

1 The principles of digital and film photography are EXACTLY the same.

2 Every film and every sensor has a specific sensitivity to light, so that a fixed amount of light is required in order to give a perfect exposure. (Note that if you use a higher sensitivity setting (called ISO) on a digital camera, you will gain speed but lose quality.)

3 To get a perfect exposure, either the photographer or the camera must alter the aperture and the shutter speed to ensure that the required amount of light reaches the film/sensor.

4 You will note that every speed on the shutter dial is roughly twice or half the one to either side. Correspondingly, every aperture setting (or f number) is twice or half the one to either side (it is based on the lens diameter squared, so it doesn't look like twice or half, but it is). This means that if you move the shutter speed by one setting, and move the aperture by one setting in the other direction, the amount of light passing into the camera will be the same as before.

5 Shutter speed affects sharpness in two ways. First, it miminises camera shake (as does a tripod), and secondly a fast speed freezes the action. A long lens needs a higher speed because the amount of shake is magnified by the distance.

6 Aperture also affects sharpness in two ways. First, a small aperture gives gretaer depth of field (DOF), so that both distant and close objects seem to be in focus. Second, almost all lenses are sharpest at around the middle of the aperture range - f8 or f11. Only very good lenses will give you sharp pictures at large apertures (f2.8 or f4).

7 Shooting sports usually requires long lenses and high shutter speeds to freeze the action. Unless the light is very good, this means you will have to raise the sensor sensitivity (ISO), which will impinge on quality, and shoot with the lens wide-open, which will not give great results unless it is a good lens. Moral - never buy a cheap telephoto.

8 The difference between a photographer and a snapper is that the former will control at least one aspect of the exposure - speed or aperture. For sports with a good lens, I would prefer to shoot wide-open (Av mode) and let the camera use the highest shutter speed it can. Using Tv (you set the speed) means that sometimes there will not be enough light (so bad exposure), and sometimes you will not be using as high a shutter speed as you could (which means blurred pics). Av is definitely best if the lens performs well when wide-open (which is a characterisitic of a GOOD long lens).

9 Never use auto exposure or auto ISO. If you do, you'll never progress, and the tiny chip in the camera will be making decisions which rightly belong to its owner. (Unless of course you think that the camera is more intelligent than you are.)

10 Fire away. With digital, experience costs nothing.

G

Thanks again for all the help over this .It really is appreciated

John

Just going through it all now and experimenting. Nice pics Tim !

John.

John, thanks, but for all the kit I carry around they should have been a bit better. I keep plugging away in the hope that one day I'll get it right!



But in the meantime I have a lot of fun!