Some simple arithmetic

I think the problem has been that as impotantspider has pointed out, the current range of cameras are very cheap for what they are. This has led to Pentax not being taken seriously when compared to other brands. The only trouble is that because of the Pentax lower price policy the K-7 is now being previewed as a direct competitor to the Nikon D5000 and Canon D500 when it is obviously of a much higher specification. The price of £1200 is now being quoted for this comparison which then makes the K-7 look very expensive compared to the two other makes.

The situation is not quite the same. Pentax used to sell more cameras than Canon and Nikon combined. They have always in my eyes provided value, better quality than Canon and much cheaper than Nikon. So when I purchased my first Pentax back in the early 80's I was not buying into some new upstart or cheap inferior product.

Pentax somehow lost their way and failed to adapt to the changing market and are now on the long road back.
Believe me there would be no one happier, if they could regain their former position and I sincerely hope that Hoya have the commitment to make it happen.

Steve

Not really. The ability to provide good value - ie price features attractively - versus competitors' products is contingent on a sustainable, superior relative cost position, in order that the business can generate the returns needed to survive.

This kind of advantage is only potentially available from limited sources eg scale, exclusive access to key materials or technology on attractive terms, novel proprietary, distribution systems or value-added chain.

Not only does there not intuitively appear to be any significant opportunity for sustainable cost advantages to exist in the case of Pentax, but the fact that they have been chronically loss-making is pretty much proof of the pudding. In other words whatever you want to call it sustainable is not an appropriate appellation.

One other point related to this line of discussion; I have seen many reports from different sources mentioning that a price war has been in effect in the dslr market. Now I don't know the history nearly as well as most others here, but since Pentax has in my experience offered the most attractive value for money, it is plausible that they started it, no matter that it is foolhardy to start price wars from a position of weakness.

If that is right they perhaps now think they can end it by significantly scaling back their main value proposition; the Mountain-Sea Change manoeuvre. However as the name suggests price wars invariably involve competitive casualties and I would be astounded if Nikon/Canon aren't scenting blood. And with the production capacity in place and market volumes under pressure they have little incentive not to go for the kill, which equates to holding prices down.

The only price wars I've seen have been manufacturers seeing who
can put up their prices fastest and by the biggest percentage.

Currently Sigma are in the lead.


shim

Do you realise that Sterling has approximately halved against the Yen peak to trough, in less than two years?

But the Pound is climbing again ever so slowly since february.

Same goes for the Euro.

But it is in fact a lot lower as it has been a couple of years ago. So I assume the the rise in prices has been delayed because manufacturers have long term contracts with suppliers to stabilise the prices of the parts.

I mean 4% btw my math isn't as good as it was

I thought you could get the VAT back and pay the local VAT of your country... might not be the case then, pitty then

About deals here, the K-7 isn't out yet so it's not much use to look for priceses if they don't know what deal they can get with the suplier.
I'll look and keep you inform but all in all if the Pound doesn't increase in value against the Euro, there won't be much difference with shipping cost.

It doesn't matter what the situation is, and I am well aware of Pentax's previous poularity, but a newer generation of photographers know nothing of that, all they see is a feature rich camera at a knock down price and that is the point I was making, those of us who are old enough to remember the good old days are either still Pentax users or have changed systems, and lets face it Pentax will have a hard job getting old dogs to learn new tricks, especially if it involves the cost of switching brands, so that means targetting newcomers and making them understand that Pentax is not the Skoda of cameras especially with the opinions of some camera salespeople.

And my referance to you buying a Skoda or Lada was extremely tongue in cheek, hence the smiley

EDIT; as an afterthought, maybe its the simple fact that the aforementioned salespeople are too young to remember Pentax and not that they are brainwashed into promoting them as inferior: they have cut their photographic teeth during Penatx's proverbial fall from grace and know no different.

There are even salespeople around who allmost can't remember film photography...

We have salesmen here who don't know what an FM Radio is
Sadly they don't know DAB's crap either

shim

You don't by any chance work for Sigma? It's about the same value now it was in 2000. It doesn't seem to have effected HD prices

shim

I realised that and have no problem with it.

On the subject of cars , as long as it gets me from A to B I don't have a problem with what I drive. My approach is usually to buy a base model, all the engineering performance and reliability without the hassle of gimmicks going wrong.

What the auto industry and governments don't seem to realise is that as cars have become more reliable and since there has been no real new innovation, for the majority there is no longer a need to change cars as frequently as in the past.

It will be genuinely innovative products that start people spending again, and manufacturers and service providers should be get creative and sieze the opportunity, rather than asking for handouts and raising prices.

End of rant, time to drink some more wine. Some new bunkers were put in at my golf club and I have an early start photographing the redesigned holes as the sun comes up.

Since when? Apart from when buying from Pentax Pro dealers the Pentax warranty is just 1 (one) year.

2002? link
All products bought new in 2001 and after in the EU have 2 year warranty.

I've readed it through it very fast but I believe that is it.
It because almost everyone else in the EU has 2 year warranty by law and since internet doesn't stop at the border many more products are bought abroad so that's why they have even out the law. To promote sales from other countries.

I don't know how it is in the UK but in the Netherlands there is a catch.
In the Netherlands there isn't a minimum warranty time set by law.
The only rules set by law are that if a defect occurs within 6 months after purchase the shop has to proof that a defect is not within warranty (they have to proof that you have dropped it for example).
After that the customer has to proof that nothing happened and the thing just died (this is difficult).

The rest of the warranty here in the Netherlands are based on the conformity principle which means that you can expect a device to work properly within the expected lifespan.

This is a very vague at first but it allows differentiation between
private use and professional use because a professionally used device will probably live a shorter life.

There is the EU directive but the EU states are not required to follow this. Because of this most stores in the Netherlands offer only 1 year warranty and you have to get into a legal battle after that year if you think that a defect is covered by warranty.
If your DSLR with 1 year warranty dies after 2 years and it is clearly a defect caused by a lack of quality then the shop or manufacturer have to fix it.