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thoughton
Posted 17/03/2011 - 10:16 Link
My own experience with DVD-RAM has been terrible. I had the drive for a couple of years before the laser finally gave up the ghost. In that time I only bought about 5 individuallly packaged DVD-RAM discs, all of them had stopped working before the drive did.
Tim
AF - Pentax K5, Sigma 10-20/4-5.6, Tamron 17-50/2.8, Sigma 30/1.4, Sigma 70-200/2.8, Tamron 70-300/4-5.6
MF - Vivitar CF 28/2.8, Tamron AD2 90/2.5, MTO 1000/11
Stuff - Metz 58 AF1, Cactus v4, Nikon SB24, Raynox 150, Sigma 1.4x TC, Sigma 2x TC, Kenko 2x macro TC, Redsnapper 283 tripod, iMac 27”, Macbook Pro 17”, iPad, iPhone 3G
FlickrFluidrPPGStreetPortfolio site
Feel free to edit any of my posted photos! If I post a photo for critique, I want brutal honesty. If you don't like it, please say so and tell me why!
lemmy
Posted 17/03/2011 - 11:05 Link
The problem with archiving so far has not been the life of the medium itself but the availability of readers to access it.

Think of all the floppy disks, zip disks and so on from the past. DVD-RAM may be readable in 100 years but what will you read it on?

Mind you, since I will be 167 years of age then, if I am spared, perhaps it may not be a worry for me personally
Algernon
Posted 17/03/2011 - 11:14 Link
I've got a few hundred Panasonic 9.4GB Cartridge disks (Double sided) going back probably 10 years and only had problems with ONE and I recovered the files off that with CDRoller. It was probably MS Explorer that caused the problem. The single non cartridge disks don't seem as reliable so I also make a DVD-R copy of them.

I only trust Panasonic drives and these are now hard to find and unfortunately the only reliable software is VOB Instant CD/DVD last supplied by Pinnacle now discontinued and not updated.

DVD-RAM is still widely used by Banks and other financial institutions for backups.

I've no idea why but a few tears ago Panasonic went to great lengths to persuade all the other drive manufacturers to include DVD-RAM on their writers? Up to 12x speed as well although I've only ever seen 5x speed disks. It does seem to be more popular in Japan than here.

My original Panasonic came with a really good program DVD-MovieAlbum which can preform all kinds of tricks that no other software can, such as take a TV recording on DVD-RAM and edit it on the disk to remove adverts etc. (very quickly). Put several episodes of a show on one DVD-RAM etc. Author DVD-RAM with 3D motion titles. Panasonic never promoted this software unfortunately. They could have cleaned up the TV and computer market if they had.

The only Panasonic drives that take Cartridges are these and they cost £190 each. I'm glad I bought 2 as backup last year when they were £120 My old ones are better but beginning to sound a bit noisy.
Half Man... Half Pentax ... Half Cucumber

Pentax K-1 + K-5 and some other stuff

Algi
Edited by Algernon: 17/03/2011 - 11:17
Algernon
Posted 17/03/2011 - 11:54 Link
Panasonic SW-9576-C DVD-RAM CARTRIDGE 5X RW IDE Drive seem to be available NEW on ebay from China for £48.64 inc postage? link
Half Man... Half Pentax ... Half Cucumber

Pentax K-1 + K-5 and some other stuff

Algi
thoughton
Posted 17/03/2011 - 12:43 Link
Mine was a Matsushita/Panasonic slot loader which took the non-catridge DVD-RAMs. Perhaps that was why it was so rubbish!
Tim
AF - Pentax K5, Sigma 10-20/4-5.6, Tamron 17-50/2.8, Sigma 30/1.4, Sigma 70-200/2.8, Tamron 70-300/4-5.6
MF - Vivitar CF 28/2.8, Tamron AD2 90/2.5, MTO 1000/11
Stuff - Metz 58 AF1, Cactus v4, Nikon SB24, Raynox 150, Sigma 1.4x TC, Sigma 2x TC, Kenko 2x macro TC, Redsnapper 283 tripod, iMac 27”, Macbook Pro 17”, iPad, iPhone 3G
FlickrFluidrPPGStreetPortfolio site
Feel free to edit any of my posted photos! If I post a photo for critique, I want brutal honesty. If you don't like it, please say so and tell me why!
Tyr
Posted 17/03/2011 - 13:01 Link
thoughton wrote:
Mine was a Matsushita/Panasonic slot loader which took the non-catridge DVD-RAMs. Perhaps that was why it was so rubbish!

It must have been a load of Matsushita!

Had one in an old notebook PC and it made is boot up so slowly! Don't know why the BIOS POST screen lasted so long with that drive installed. As soon as I took it out it was almost instant POST.

Used to make me laugh though as the POST would hang on MATSHITA-DVDRAM, which I thought sounded painful.
Algernon
Posted 17/03/2011 - 13:08 Link
I've got a Toshiba laptop with a Matsushita DVD-RAM drive on it. That's why I've tried using some of the non-cartridge disks. I don't think I'd trust writing to them on the laptop, but have used them OK transferring stuff from the Desktop to the laptop.

The earlier drives were all MIJ by Matsushita later ones are usually Made in Indonsia and marked manufactured for Matsushita.

The Cartridge disks can be removed from the cartridge, but because they are written both sides you have to be very careful.
Half Man... Half Pentax ... Half Cucumber

Pentax K-1 + K-5 and some other stuff

Algi
Edited by Algernon: 17/03/2011 - 13:22
terje-l
Posted 19/03/2011 - 17:10 Link
Quote:
DVD-RAM is still widely used by Banks and other financial institutions for backups.

I honestly doubt that banks etc. use DVDs for long time storage. After all, backups are repeated regularly, so any old copies are just thrown away.

In companies, the practice is to make full weekly backups and incremental daily backups. Therefore, the storage medium (i.e. DVD) does not have to live very long.

I, for one, don't trust CDs or DVDs for real long-term storage.
Best regards
Terry

K20D, Optio I10, DA 18-55 1:3.5-5.6 AL II, A 1:1.7/50, D FA 1:2.8/100 Macro, Sigma 70-300 1:4-5.6 APO DG Macro, Pentax AF 360FGZ
Tyr
Posted 20/03/2011 - 15:26 Link
terje-l wrote:
Quote:
DVD-RAM is still widely used by Banks and other financial institutions for backups.

I honestly doubt that banks etc. use DVDs for long time storage. After all, backups are repeated regularly, so any old copies are just thrown away.

In companies, the practice is to make full weekly backups and incremental daily backups. Therefore, the storage medium (i.e. DVD) does not have to live very long.

I, for one, don't trust CDs or DVDs for real long-term storage.

DVD-RAM is fully rewritable and can be done real time. You don't burn DVD-RAM disks like any other DVD. They act like a slow hard disk. Nothing thrown away!
Algernon
Posted 20/03/2011 - 15:54 Link
Using Instant CD/DVD Software DVD-RAM can also be de-fragged and the disk can be finalized (reversible by just drag dropping a file onto it). Once finalized the disk can be played by just about anything especially if UDF 1.02 has been used as the format. It can also be copied and read as a normal DVD.

If you look at a retail Movie DVD on a PC it shows up as a UDF 1.02 disk, so the format is widely used.

The 5x disks are fast but there are supposed to be 12x disks available in Japan.

This Company are Data Storage Specialists and they sell and repair DVD-RAM drives plus other storage products.

I've used all kinds of tape storage and had trouble with all of it. About the worst being DAT drives.

DVD-RAM must be good because it never caught on and isn't standard on a Mac
Half Man... Half Pentax ... Half Cucumber

Pentax K-1 + K-5 and some other stuff

Algi
terje-l
Posted 21/03/2011 - 17:10 Link
An external harddisk is still preferrable, imho.
Best regards
Terry

K20D, Optio I10, DA 18-55 1:3.5-5.6 AL II, A 1:1.7/50, D FA 1:2.8/100 Macro, Sigma 70-300 1:4-5.6 APO DG Macro, Pentax AF 360FGZ
Algernon
Posted 21/03/2011 - 18:01 Link
They are mechanical and break down A DVD-RAM disk is just like having the platter off a HDD and it's protected by a good cartridge. It can be carried around (in your camera bag if you want) and won't get damaged. Can't do that with a HDD.

What HDD interfaces will be available on a computer in 10 years time? Only a few years ago SCSI drives were the best (and most expensive) you could buy. Now you would struggle connecting one to a PC as a lot of people have found with SCSI scanners. At least BluRay can read (and write) to DVD-RAM so it should be around for sometime
Half Man... Half Pentax ... Half Cucumber

Pentax K-1 + K-5 and some other stuff

Algi
thoughton
Posted 21/03/2011 - 18:07 Link
I also seriously doubt that a large instituion like a bank would use anything like a DVD or DVD-RAM for their backups Too slow, too error-prone, tiny capacity, and much too labour intensive.
Tim
AF - Pentax K5, Sigma 10-20/4-5.6, Tamron 17-50/2.8, Sigma 30/1.4, Sigma 70-200/2.8, Tamron 70-300/4-5.6
MF - Vivitar CF 28/2.8, Tamron AD2 90/2.5, MTO 1000/11
Stuff - Metz 58 AF1, Cactus v4, Nikon SB24, Raynox 150, Sigma 1.4x TC, Sigma 2x TC, Kenko 2x macro TC, Redsnapper 283 tripod, iMac 27”, Macbook Pro 17”, iPad, iPhone 3G
FlickrFluidrPPGStreetPortfolio site
Feel free to edit any of my posted photos! If I post a photo for critique, I want brutal honesty. If you don't like it, please say so and tell me why!
Edited by thoughton: 21/03/2011 - 18:08
bretti_kivi
Posted 21/03/2011 - 18:25 Link
SDLT last time I looked and I suspect LTO now. The data quantities at work aren't actually *that* huge... probably only 25TB or so.

Bret
my pics: link
my kit: K3, K5, K-01, DA 18-55, D-FA50 macro, Siggy 30/1.4, 100-300/f4, 70-200/2.8, Samsung 12-24/f4, Tamron 17-50, and lots of other bits.
terje-l
Posted 21/03/2011 - 19:05 Link
Algernon wrote:
They are mechanical and break down A DVD-RAM disk is just like having the platter off a HDD and it's protected by a good cartridge. It can be carried around (in your camera bag if you want) and won't get damaged. Can't do that with a HDD.

What HDD interfaces will be available on a computer in 10 years time? Only a few years ago SCSI drives were the best (and most expensive) you could buy. Now you would struggle connecting one to a PC as a lot of people have found with SCSI scanners. At least BluRay can read (and write) to DVD-RAM so it should be around for sometime

And who would want to carry the backup disc around in the camera bag anyway? It should be stored in a safe place.

Backup is a dynamic thing - to be renewed ever so often, at least once a week. I would never store away my images on a disc for years, whether on a DVD or a HDD. So when HDDs become obsolete I switch to whatever medium is available.
Best regards
Terry

K20D, Optio I10, DA 18-55 1:3.5-5.6 AL II, A 1:1.7/50, D FA 1:2.8/100 Macro, Sigma 70-300 1:4-5.6 APO DG Macro, Pentax AF 360FGZ

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