Shutter life
Posted 27/09/2011 - 13:31
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It is interesting, but as the failure rate is based on only one negative result maybe it needs a larger sample.
Best regards, John
Posted 27/09/2011 - 13:37
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Who knows Doug, but it's always best to approach statistics with caution.
Best regards, John
Posted 27/09/2011 - 14:57
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To be honest, statistically I don't think that gives any useful information.
Getting there! Thanks to you guys
Pentax K3ii, Pentax K10d, Kit lens ( 18-55mm ), 50mm f1.7 lens, Tamron 70-300mm lens, Prinzflex 70-162 manual lens, Various old flashes.
Pentax K3ii, Pentax K10d, Kit lens ( 18-55mm ), 50mm f1.7 lens, Tamron 70-300mm lens, Prinzflex 70-162 manual lens, Various old flashes.
Posted 27/09/2011 - 17:56
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johnriley wrote:
It is interesting, but as the failure rate is based on only one negative result maybe it needs a larger sample.
Now that was being nice, John.It is interesting, but as the failure rate is based on only one negative result maybe it needs a larger sample.
Father Ted wrote:
To be honest, statistically I don't think that gives any useful information.
I would be inclined to call that site a waste of bandwidth:To be honest, statistically I don't think that gives any useful information.
- The sample size is way too small.
- All the data is user reported.
- No indication of the total production run is given.
- There is no indication of the conditions under which each shutter was used (think single shot compared to all multiple exposures).
- There was no climatic or temperature data.
One could take all the data for each model, and work out the standard deviation as well as the average - and then have some slightly more useful values.
And, if you really want to see the value of that database, look at the figures for the SD9 Sigma - a sample size of 13, of which two appear to be the same camera (and are certainly the same person reporting). I find it hard to believe that two samples should each fail at exactly 65278 actuations in the same pair of hands. Not impossible, just very hard!
Geoff
Water can wear away a stone - but it can't cook lunch
X-5
istDS
K2000
P50.
Lenses Digital: 50-200, 18-55 KAF: 28-80.
Lenses KA & K: SMC-KA f2.0, SMC-K f1.4, SMC-K f1.7 Tokina KA 28-70 , SMC Pentax 70-210 F4, Sigma KA 75-300 , Hanimex 500mm Mirror, and the Tamron Adaptall-2 stuff.
and then there's all the M42 kit, and the accessories ...
X-5
istDS
K2000
P50.
Lenses Digital: 50-200, 18-55 KAF: 28-80.
Lenses KA & K: SMC-KA f2.0, SMC-K f1.4, SMC-K f1.7 Tokina KA 28-70 , SMC Pentax 70-210 F4, Sigma KA 75-300 , Hanimex 500mm Mirror, and the Tamron Adaptall-2 stuff.
and then there's all the M42 kit, and the accessories ...
Posted 27/09/2011 - 18:32
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Results for a more common camera, the D300, are a bit more plausible. People usually upgrade their cameras before shutter problems occur, or something else goes wrong, so it's always going to be hard to get a complete picture.
Are people more likely to seek out and participate in such a site if they do run into shutter problems?
Are people more likely to seek out and participate in such a site if they do run into shutter problems?
Posted 27/09/2011 - 21:41
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I did hear that over 80% of statistics are made up anyway.
Posted 28/09/2011 - 00:25
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DoctorJeff wrote:
- The sample size is way too small.
- All the data is user reported.
- No indication of the total production run is given.
- There is no indication of the conditions under which each shutter was used (think single shot compared to all multiple exposures).
- There was no climatic or temperature data.
One could take all the data for each model, and work out the standard deviation as well as the average - and then have some slightly more useful values.
And, if you really want to see the value of that database, look at the figures for the SD9 Sigma - a sample size of 13, of which two appear to be the same camera (and are certainly the same person reporting). I find it hard to believe that two samples should each fail at exactly 65278 actuations in the same pair of hands. Not impossible, just very hard!
Geoff
So I guess that you won't be a regular visitor then?johnriley wrote:
It is interesting, but as the failure rate is based on only one negative result maybe it needs a larger sample.
Now that was being nice, John.It is interesting, but as the failure rate is based on only one negative result maybe it needs a larger sample.
Father Ted wrote:
To be honest, statistically I don't think that gives any useful information.
I would be inclined to call that site a waste of bandwidth:To be honest, statistically I don't think that gives any useful information.
- The sample size is way too small.
- All the data is user reported.
- No indication of the total production run is given.
- There is no indication of the conditions under which each shutter was used (think single shot compared to all multiple exposures).
- There was no climatic or temperature data.
One could take all the data for each model, and work out the standard deviation as well as the average - and then have some slightly more useful values.
And, if you really want to see the value of that database, look at the figures for the SD9 Sigma - a sample size of 13, of which two appear to be the same camera (and are certainly the same person reporting). I find it hard to believe that two samples should each fail at exactly 65278 actuations in the same pair of hands. Not impossible, just very hard!
Geoff
greynolds999 wrote:
I did hear that over 80% of statistics are made up anyway.
That makes more sense as I had heard it was closer to 104.8%I did hear that over 80% of statistics are made up anyway.
In a way, statistics are only that and may have no real impact on most people or their activity. Unless your an insurance broker?
Best regards.
Too far from a shore.
Posted 28/09/2011 - 10:20
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Quote:
K10D wrote:
So I guess that you won't be a regular visitor then?
Of that, you can be sure!K10D wrote:
So I guess that you won't be a regular visitor then?
If I were marking that as an undergraduate project, it would only just have scraped a pass.
But seriously, I can imagine that the site will attract a lot of visitors, once. There is not enough data to make a real difference on a buying decision - but no doubt some people will visit a second time if they are wavering between two models, and want another reference point.
Or, look at it another way:
If the shutter on model X is a shutter that has a few recorded failures at around the 40,000 mark, that would not even be worth considering, for me - since that is about 15 years use, for me. For a pro taking 40-50,000 shots a year, the warranty length could be far more important. For either of us, the reliability of the electronics might well be a much bigger factor. Just think how many people have reported shutter failures here, as opposed to sensor staining.
Geoff
Water can wear away a stone - but it can't cook lunch
X-5
istDS
K2000
P50.
Lenses Digital: 50-200, 18-55 KAF: 28-80.
Lenses KA & K: SMC-KA f2.0, SMC-K f1.4, SMC-K f1.7 Tokina KA 28-70 , SMC Pentax 70-210 F4, Sigma KA 75-300 , Hanimex 500mm Mirror, and the Tamron Adaptall-2 stuff.
and then there's all the M42 kit, and the accessories ...
X-5
istDS
K2000
P50.
Lenses Digital: 50-200, 18-55 KAF: 28-80.
Lenses KA & K: SMC-KA f2.0, SMC-K f1.4, SMC-K f1.7 Tokina KA 28-70 , SMC Pentax 70-210 F4, Sigma KA 75-300 , Hanimex 500mm Mirror, and the Tamron Adaptall-2 stuff.
and then there's all the M42 kit, and the accessories ...
Posted 28/09/2011 - 12:22
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Statitically 6 out of 7 dwarves are not happy.
Nobody is perfect, but being Scottish is a start
Posted 28/09/2011 - 12:26
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T140 wrote:
Statitically 6 out of 7 dwarves are not happy.
Statitically 6 out of 7 dwarves are not happy.
Posted 28/09/2011 - 18:27
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T140 wrote:
Statistically 6 out of 7 dwarves are not happy.
And 6/7 dwarves aren't grumpy either.Statistically 6 out of 7 dwarves are not happy.
So if they're not happy or grumpy, what then? Mildly peeved? Moderately cheerful?
.
Pentax K-3, DA18-135, DA35 F2.4, DA17-70, DA55-300, FA28-200, A50 F1.7, A100 F4 Macro, A400 F5.6, Sigma 10-20 EXDC, 50-500 F4.5-6.3 APO DG OS Samsung flash SEF-54PZF(x2)
.
Pentax K-3, DA18-135, DA35 F2.4, DA17-70, DA55-300, FA28-200, A50 F1.7, A100 F4 Macro, A400 F5.6, Sigma 10-20 EXDC, 50-500 F4.5-6.3 APO DG OS Samsung flash SEF-54PZF(x2)
.
Posted 28/09/2011 - 18:36
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I reckon they might be sneezy, sleepy, bashful or even dopey.
Regards,
Doc
Regards,
Doc
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