Settings help


stigg

Link Posted 27/07/2014 - 20:39
Can anyone give me some advise on what settings would work for a shot taken from inside a machine gun bunker on a sunny day, it was in Rye harbour and was a nice sunny day and I tried lots of different settings and could only get a good inside with a complete washed out outside or a complete black inside and a moderate outside! I was using a K3 with a Pentax 17-70 lens on AV mode.
Thanks in advance for any help.
Brian
All the best
Brian

And come him slow or come him fast it is but death who comes at last.

Mike-P

Link Posted 27/07/2014 - 20:47
This is where HDR mode should help a lot.
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McGregNi

Link Posted 27/07/2014 - 21:11
For sure, sounds like a typical high dynamic range scene. If you want both in and out to be well exposed there's no option but to use HDR or shoot two exposures and blend them. Both these techniques need a stable camera with minimal movement between the exposures. The camera HDR takes 3 separate exposures and merges them, so you still need a steady camera. Its great fun , enjoy experimenting!
My Guides to the Pentax Digital Camera Flash Lighting System : Download here from the PentaxForums Homepage Article .... link
Pentax K7 with BG-4 Grip / Samyang 14mm f2.8 ED AS IF UMC / DA18-55mm f3.5-5.6 AL WR / SMC A28mm f2.8 / D FA 28-105mm / SMC F35-70 f3.5-4.5 / SMC A50mm f1.7 / Tamron AF70-300mm f4-5.6 Di LD macro / SMC M75-150mm f4.0 / Tamron Adaptall (CT-135) 135mm f2.8 / Asahi Takumar-A 2X tele-converter / Pentax AF-540FGZ (I & II) Flashes / Cactus RF60/X Flashes & V6/V6II Transceiver

matwhittington

Link Posted 27/07/2014 - 21:13
Yes I think HDR would be a good solution, although works best with a tripod. You might also be able to balance the dark inside with the bright outside by using a flash, although I suspect you'll need to use manual mode and experiment a bit; although that would probably require a flashgun rather than the on board...?

Cheers
Mat W

My Flickr: link

johnriley

Link Posted 27/07/2014 - 22:41
Fill-in flash is one way and it will be more realistic if the interior is allowed to remain quite dark compared to the exterior. The flash exposure can be balanced and it will work with the built in flash.

HDR is the another way.

In Photoshop, an area could be selected and adjusted for brightness individually. It might be best to expose for the outside scene and then select the dark are of the image and bring up its brightness. It depends on how much detail is in the shadows, but it could be worth a try.
Best regards, John

richandfleur

Link Posted 27/07/2014 - 22:42
Other simple option (without the need for direct HDR software work) would be a tripod and two shots, one for the inside and one for the outside. Potentially you could use your existing photos from the shoot if you still have them and they're taken from roughly the same spot.

In Photoshop, align the two layers (much easier if tripod mounted) and then cut away the top layer to reveal the window view in the layer beneath.

Play with levels to make the scene appear natural and you're hopefully done.

This is a very similar to real estate photography, in which you are often faced with a room with a comparatively bright window. Good luck and we'd like to see your results

stub

Link Posted 27/07/2014 - 23:41
I agree with John and Richard. Though the two shot and photoshop route. Still makes me feel like im cheating....lol
K-1Gripped K-1 ungripped K-5ii K7 Various lenses

Stuart..

richandfleur

Link Posted 28/07/2014 - 00:49
stub wrote:
Though the two shot and photoshop route. Still makes me feel like im cheating....lol

Everyone wants a new camera with incredible dynamic range, but technically if the scene is static and you use a tripod then you can achieve that magical device outcome right now. Don't think of it as cheating, but more of how you can compensate for the shortcomings of the technology/equipment available to us today.

As John says above, the other options are to shoot RAW and pick as bright an exposure as possible to not blow out the highlights unacceptably, and then hope there is enough detail captured in the shadows. Or use a flash, or merge the two shots, or bring some of your own non flash lighting etc. Look out for purple fringing when you push the exposure around high contrast edges, like a window for instance...

Right now though, there is a limit to the exposure range that we can capture, with what we have to use, be that cameras or our own eyes. However, we have tools (camera's, tripods and software etc) that allow us to achieve what we're after, by utilising them in different ways. I see the camera as a tool to achieving the image I want, and presumably clash with 'purists' who believe everything has to be done in camera etc.

Just thinking about it, the third way would be to craft an ND filter the same shape as the window, and to suspend it on string in front of the camera to block only the window. You'd probably still want Photoshop to clone out the support though afterwards (I'm not serious about this by the way).

Photoshop auto align layers link

I tried hunting for a layer mask tutorial on youtube to link but there are just too many, and many quite detailed. Take a look with keywords such as layer, interior, real estate, window etc and you should get a few. Good luck, and keen to see the location/photos too
Last Edited by richandfleur on 28/07/2014 - 00:52

stigg

Link Posted 28/07/2014 - 07:17
Thanks for all the help, I will give the HDR a go next time I'm there if it's sunny.
All the best
Brian

And come him slow or come him fast it is but death who comes at last.

vic cross

Link Posted 28/07/2014 - 08:12
I'll go with Mat W and John. Use a flash. It normally works well when photographing bright stained glass windows in churches to get the detail in the stonework and, or, shooting an outside scene through a stone arch or doorway etc,etc. It also works when shooting a bride and groom in the church doorway when it is a bright day outside. I'd go for the flash every time.
CHEERS Vic.
Born again biker with lots of Pentax bits. Every day I wake up is a good day. I'm so old I don't even buy green bananas.

McGregNi

Link Posted 28/07/2014 - 09:29
I agree that flash in general can work to balance our lighting issues. But this is a machine gun bunker, no lighting at all and bright sunlight outside. Does anyone imagine that on-camera flash will make a nice reproduction of the insides of a bunker? I can only imagine a harsh sterile look, like bad Facebook party pictures! The exposure required for the exterior is likely to produce pitch black inside, leaving only the flash to light it ... If it was a more gentle fill flash type situation I agree it might work, but not under the specific conditions described here.
My Guides to the Pentax Digital Camera Flash Lighting System : Download here from the PentaxForums Homepage Article .... link
Pentax K7 with BG-4 Grip / Samyang 14mm f2.8 ED AS IF UMC / DA18-55mm f3.5-5.6 AL WR / SMC A28mm f2.8 / D FA 28-105mm / SMC F35-70 f3.5-4.5 / SMC A50mm f1.7 / Tamron AF70-300mm f4-5.6 Di LD macro / SMC M75-150mm f4.0 / Tamron Adaptall (CT-135) 135mm f2.8 / Asahi Takumar-A 2X tele-converter / Pentax AF-540FGZ (I & II) Flashes / Cactus RF60/X Flashes & V6/V6II Transceiver
Last Edited by McGregNi on 28/07/2014 - 09:31

johnriley

Link Posted 28/07/2014 - 09:34
There will always be some light Nigel, so it's just a question of seeking balance. If we wanted to get fancy about it then we could use diffusion over the built in flash and perhaps some strategically placed slave flashes (the tiny ones), maybe even adding some red gels to simulate the idea of a low lit area ready for war.
Best regards, John

McGregNi

Link Posted 28/07/2014 - 11:28
yes that would be most creative, although perhaps a bit more effort than our OP was anticipating ...

I think if you could control the flash exposure greatly to reduce it right down to a very subtle illumination then it could work - but frankly this is very limited with P-TTL - ideally you'd be wanting a flashgun with full manual control and a good number of power output steps - I really don't think it will be accomplished with any style in P-TTL.
My Guides to the Pentax Digital Camera Flash Lighting System : Download here from the PentaxForums Homepage Article .... link
Pentax K7 with BG-4 Grip / Samyang 14mm f2.8 ED AS IF UMC / DA18-55mm f3.5-5.6 AL WR / SMC A28mm f2.8 / D FA 28-105mm / SMC F35-70 f3.5-4.5 / SMC A50mm f1.7 / Tamron AF70-300mm f4-5.6 Di LD macro / SMC M75-150mm f4.0 / Tamron Adaptall (CT-135) 135mm f2.8 / Asahi Takumar-A 2X tele-converter / Pentax AF-540FGZ (I & II) Flashes / Cactus RF60/X Flashes & V6/V6II Transceiver
Last Edited by McGregNi on 28/07/2014 - 11:29

stigg

Link Posted 28/07/2014 - 13:07
I did try my on camera flash but it didn't look very good, it was very bright outside and looking straight on to a beach!
I will try the HDR next time with a tripod and see what happens, thanks all again.
All the best
Brian

And come him slow or come him fast it is but death who comes at last.

stigg

Link Posted 28/07/2014 - 13:10
By the way this is the bunker and it is quite dark inside.


All the best
Brian

And come him slow or come him fast it is but death who comes at last.
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