Selling images - advice needed!


bjolester

Link Posted 21/01/2014 - 15:17
I need some advice about selling images. Recently I contacted a regional branch of the main national outdoor/hiking association (I cannot find a better translation of the Norwegian name), introducing myself as an amateur landscape photographer and linking my image galleries. My intension was that they possibly could be interested in buying some of my images, or maybe they could make use of me somehow as a photographer in the future. They responded quickly and said they liked my work and were interested in using many of my photos, for instance in an annual calendar, a yearbook, their website, etc., but they could not pay me any money. They also pointed out that by giving them images they might use, I would get good PR, and this could also lead to other things, other people becoming interested, and so on.

The regional branch of this organization, of which I am a member, has maybe 5000-10 000 members. The national organization does important work within many areas, also within environmental politics and nature preservation,

What do you think, is this a good idea? What kind of things do I need to keep in mind if I do give them some images (contracts, copyright, etc.)

I am grateful for any advice on this matter.

Bjørn
Bjørn

PPG
Flickr

spinno

Link Posted 21/01/2014 - 15:52
Don't give them the copyrights.By all means grant them a (free) licence to use the photos but do not give them the copyright.
Also specify how the images are to be used say in promotional literature or calendars but unless you're getting a cut not sold as "tourist snaps"
I'm no legal expert (especially in your neck of the woods!) but you should really get some form of contract drawn up.
David

gartmore

Link Posted 21/01/2014 - 15:57
I'm afraid I wouldn't do it at all. As a member you may wish to help your association by not charging but you must make it absolutely clear that you retain copyright and jealously guard it.
Ken
“We must avoid however, snapping away, shooting quickly and without thought, overloading ourselves with unnecessary images that clutter our memory and diminish the clarity of the whole.” - Henri Cartier-Bresson -

bjolester

Link Posted 21/01/2014 - 16:06
Thank you for your advice about copyright and contracts David and Ken!

I believe the bottom line in my case is: Is it a good idea to give away photos for free, hoping it might generate some interest, sale or work in the future?

Bjørn
Bjørn

PPG
Flickr
Last Edited by bjolester on 21/01/2014 - 16:24

johnriley

Link Posted 21/01/2014 - 16:22
My experience is that doing things for free just generates more people looking for things for free. There has to be a very good reason if I do something and don't charge, which I do sometimes do.
Best regards, John

RalphHardwick

Link Posted 21/01/2014 - 16:29
Bjørn
I hope to be in a position to sell some images in the near future and so I can sympathise with your predicament.

If I were in your position I would ask myself the following questions:

1. Do I need the money i.e. is this your only income or can you manage without earning anything from the photos.
2. How much would 'exposure' to a specific market of 5000-10 000 potential customers cost you
3. Can I negotiate a 'royalties' fee i.e. give the images for free and get back a percentage of any sales.
4. If I give use of the photos away for free, how else can I 'profit' from being linked with this organisation (discuss this with them e.g. use of their logo, promotion of your name etc.). Remember, payment need not always be in cash terms and no one else needs to know that you didn't get paid for them.

For me, I already have an income, and I could see many ways to use a link with such an organisation to my benefit so I would, probably, let them use the images. However I would 'negotiate' the terms of their use.

Also, the advice given above is sound. You must retain the copyright and you should 'licence' the use of the images. Consider putting some limits on duration of use, how they are used and how your name is linked to them.

That's what I would do anyway


PS. I was in Trondheim in June. You are a lucky man to have such a beautiful region to photograph
---------------------------------------------------------------------
CaptureLight Ltd
flickr
"I carry a camera to capture memories and the occasional photograph worthy of sharing"
Last Edited by RalphHardwick on 21/01/2014 - 16:33

bjolester

Link Posted 21/01/2014 - 16:42
johnriley wrote:
My experience is that doing things for free just generates more people looking for things for free.

That is a very good point John! I need to give this some serious consideration. Having had many years experience as a professional musician within the music business, I know all too well the attitude amongst many people that music is not something one purchases. They do not think of all the work and dedication that lies behind a music production, and why the artist need to get paid for their work.

Maybe I have found the answer to my query...!

Thank you for your help!

Regards
Bjørn
Bjørn

PPG
Flickr
Last Edited by bjolester on 21/01/2014 - 16:43

bjolester

Link Posted 21/01/2014 - 17:04
Ralph: Thank you for your advice! Well, I do not make any money from photography, it is only a passion. I make my income as a musician and teacher. I do not believe that there is much money in landscape photography, unless one is very very talented and works for a long time to establish oneself. At the same time I would like to have some kind of development within photography, where my images could be used in a "yet to be defined" context. If the organisation I mention in my opening post could pay for my images, that would be a perfect context/niche for me. I need to think about the points you make Ralph.

I enjoy life in Trondheim, I hope you had a good time when you were here!

Regards
Bjørn

PS: The organization I am referring to has about 18.000 members.
Bjørn

PPG
Flickr
Last Edited by bjolester on 21/01/2014 - 17:23

cabstar

Link Posted 21/01/2014 - 21:55
Ok first things the only people that look at photo credits are photographers and photographers are not going to hire or biy your images. I would thank them for their offer and walk away. If you wish to sell your images there are plenty of stock sites like istock etc which cost nothing but has the potential with a little marketing by yourself likely to sell.
PPG Wedding photography Flickr
Concert photography

Currently on a Pentax hiatus until an FF Pentax is released

bjolester

Link Posted 21/01/2014 - 23:47
Thank you for your advice cabstar, I understand the things you say. I probably will not go for their offer.

My ambition is to find ways to improve as a photographer. I know photographers that have worked with documenting old huts and cabins in the mountains, or small fishing villages that become abandoned. So, some kind of historical documentation project would be very interesting. The organisation I have contacted are involved in things like this, but also other communal and governmental organisations. I need to investigate such possibilities.

Bjørn
Bjørn

PPG
Flickr

johnha

Link Posted 22/01/2014 - 00:43
Hi Bjørn,

It's great that they like (and want to use) your work, not so great that they can't pay for it (if they're publicly funded, I can kind of understand their point of view).

I don't know how the situation is in Norway, but unless you're able to make enough money to make it worthwhile, you may find receiving money isn't worth the extra trouble or expense relating to tax, insurance, accounting etc. that you may need.

It sounds like you'd like to work with some of the projects they're doing, keeping a good relationship with them obviously helps. You could consider licensing them to use a few images on their website (credited of course) in exchange for their co-operation on a project (that you had already researched).

Depending on the amount of work you already have, you could suggest an exhibition of it in one (or several) of their venues (you'd probably have to finance the printing/mounting yourself). I feel this would promote your work, promote their work and may lead to print sales.

These are just a few thoughts.

Your P67 work is stunning.

John.
PPG Flickr

Smeggypants

Link Posted 22/01/2014 - 03:20
Next time I'm in Tescos I'm going to ask for their food for free on the basis it might lead to other things and other people.
[i]Bodies: 1x K-5IIs, 2x K-5, Sony TX-5, Nokia 808
Lenses: Pentax DA 10-17mm ED(IF) Fish Eye, Pentax DA 14mm f/2.8, Sigma 17-70mm f/2.8, Pentax-A 28mm f/2.8, Sigma 30mm F1.4 EX DC, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.2, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-FA 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.7, Pentax DA* 50-135mm f/2.8, Sigma 135-400mm APO DG, and more ..
Flash: AF-540FGZ, Vivitar 283

bjolester

Link Posted 22/01/2014 - 07:01
johnha wrote:
Hi Bjørn,

It's great that they like (and want to use) your work, not so great that they can't pay for it (if they're publicly funded, I can kind of understand their point of view).

I don't know how the situation is in Norway, but unless you're able to make enough money to make it worthwhile, you may find receiving money isn't worth the extra trouble or expense relating to tax, insurance, accounting etc. that you may need.

It sounds like you'd like to work with some of the projects they're doing, keeping a good relationship with them obviously helps. You could consider licensing them to use a few images on their website (credited of course) in exchange for their co-operation on a project (that you had already researched).

Depending on the amount of work you already have, you could suggest an exhibition of it in one (or several) of their venues (you'd probably have to finance the printing/mounting yourself). I feel this would promote your work, promote their work and may lead to print sales.

John.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts John! I obviously need to think more about this and research possibilities.

Best regards
Bjørn
Bjørn

PPG
Flickr

bjolester

Link Posted 22/01/2014 - 07:02
Smeggypants wrote:
Next time I'm in Tescos I'm going to ask for their food for free on the basis it might lead to other things and other people.


Bjørn

PPG
Flickr

johnha

Link Posted 22/01/2014 - 11:00
Smeggypants wrote:
Next time I'm in Tescos I'm going to ask for their food for free on the basis it might lead to other things and other people.

They do offer food for free (and/or reduced price) to stop you going somewhere else and to keep your business.

Other supermarkets with similar deals are available.
PPG Flickr
Add a Comment
You must be registered or logged-in to comment.