Raw v Jpeg

Pentaxophile
Posted 10/05/2011 - 18:09 Link
gartmore wrote:
EDIT: I see pentaxophlie has just edited his post removing all the heinous photographic crimes he admitted to...

Because on reflection, I never make mistakes - at least ones that can't be swiftly blamed on the camera!

johnriley wrote:
I've said it before, but shooting at least one slide film is an excellent learning tool for any photographer. You then see exactly what you've shot and all the defects in composition and exposure are laid bare.

If a photographer can get a good success rate with colour slides, then digital is no problem.
That is true, but I found recently that shooting film yielded better results than I used to get before I started with digital... the instant feedback on digital actually does help you learn, despite the throwaway nature of the medium which means you are less inclined to pay as much attention to what you are doing
Anvh
Posted 10/05/2011 - 18:29 Link
johnriley wrote:
I've said it before, but shooting at least one slide film is an excellent learning tool for any photographer. You then see exactly what you've shot and all the defects in composition and exposure are laid bare.

If a photographer can get a good success rate with colour slides, then digital is no problem.
Not to make it too technical or off topic but wouldn't a slide react differently then a sensor?
Stefan
Comment Image

K10D, K5
DA* 16-50, DA* 50-135, D-FA 100 Macro, DA 40 Ltd, DA 18-55
AF-540FGZ
johnriley
Posted 10/05/2011 - 18:34 Link
Anvh wrote:
johnriley wrote:
I've said it before, but shooting at least one slide film is an excellent learning tool for any photographer. You then see exactly what you've shot and all the defects in composition and exposure are laid bare.

If a photographer can get a good success rate with colour slides, then digital is no problem.
Not to make it too technical or off topic but wouldn't a slide react differently then a sensor?
We're talking here about composition making the most of the whole frame, which is a lesson in discipline. We are also talking about learning not to over expose the highlights, which is the death of any slide or digital image. A slide in these respects uses very similar techniques to a sensor.
Best regards, John
Anvh
Posted 10/05/2011 - 20:48 Link
Didn't know about the hightlights and slides, i thought it was closer to how film reacts, that one is more forgiving.

Shooting with film/slides might be a good idea for some if they need a forceful hand but if you set yourself a limit of 10 photo's and can keep yourself to that you would have the same effect right?
Stefan
Comment Image

K10D, K5
DA* 16-50, DA* 50-135, D-FA 100 Macro, DA 40 Ltd, DA 18-55
AF-540FGZ
Edited by Anvh: 10/05/2011 - 20:49
johnriley
Posted 10/05/2011 - 21:07 Link
I'm not sure what you mean Stefan, slides are colour transparencies and I'm only talking about the technical approach to shooting the images compared to digital. Master one and you have mastered the other.
Best regards, John
Anvh
Posted 10/05/2011 - 21:36 Link
I've no idea hwere the best response is for the slide, for digital it's just below the burned out highlight sadly enough so that means you need to expose against the highlight to get the most out of it, is that also true for slides?
Stefan
Comment Image

K10D, K5
DA* 16-50, DA* 50-135, D-FA 100 Macro, DA 40 Ltd, DA 18-55
AF-540FGZ
johnriley
Posted 10/05/2011 - 21:49 Link
Ah, I see. That's where we disagree over exposure for digital. It is essential with a slide not to burn out the highlights. This is the opposite of a colour negative, where some over exposure can even be beneficial.

Noise is the enemy of digital and of course this is more present in dark areas, hence your assertation that we should move the histogram to the right. However, I am suggesting that we should in fact under expose if anything, not by much of course, but enough to ensure that detail is retained in the highlights.

Even with RAW capture you will not regain detail that is not there.

So, depending upon the camera's metering, just ensure that we do not blow out the highlights. The shadows may contain noise at higher ISO settings, but with the new K-r and K-5 cameras this is not really much of a problem.

The best practice IMHO is to expose as per a slide film, which is where we started these musings.
Best regards, John
Edited by johnriley: 10/05/2011 - 21:50
Anvh
Posted 11/05/2011 - 19:01 Link
I agree with the blow out highlights, that simply means your information is lost.
A sensor however is more like a linear device, so at the lowest darkest parts the "steps" it can record are very small but the number of "steps" increase when the exposure/brightness increase as well so that maximum number of steps is just below the limit when you blow out the highlight, that's the reason why you want to expose to the right when you shoot with RAW at least.
With JPG you should get the best photo out of the camera that you can because the more you need to edit the more the photo degrade.

A read
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/expose-right.shtml

And here is a test, as you can see it's not just noise but also details.
http://schewephoto.com/ETTR/index.html
Stefan
Comment Image

K10D, K5
DA* 16-50, DA* 50-135, D-FA 100 Macro, DA 40 Ltd, DA 18-55
AF-540FGZ

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