RAW processors

If that were really the case how come there is apparently a big market for massive 300-500 page books on using it - a lot of Waterstones photo sections heave under the weight of these tomes plus the Photshop equivalents!

Have you tried it yet Nigel?

I found Lightroom very intuitive. Only documentation I ever read was the Key Commands. Key commands are the key to a speedy workflow. So much so I use the plugin Paddy with Lightroom which allows anything to be key commanded by anything over and above Lightroom's standard key commands I have all my favourite develop and adjustment brush presets on keycommand, and adjustment brush modes.

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Ever heard of a comfort blanket or publishing opportunism? That's tongue in cheek, but I can assure you that you do not need those books to understand Lightroom.

Its good to see the Lightroom evangelists alive & kicking Look, you couldn't publish large books on the program if there wasn't a great deal of detail and technical knowledge to cover. Its clearly a complex program in terms of what it is capable of - naturally there will be a learning curve which is significant.

The point was that it is perhaps misleading to suggest that anyone will just dive in, click around and get easy good results 'intuitively'. Some will of course, if they have a good knowledge already of RAW and the standard parameters, and a knowledge of workflow principles. But others will have to learn in a slower way with help.

I don't need to try it as I am glad to have other options I like to use - anyway, I assume this repeated quip is to suggest that as I don't use it I am unqualified to pass comment? Well, I don't buy that - I make comments on things that interest me, not just on things I actually do.

The complexity is in the programme, not in the use of it. I would not say the same of Photoshop, which is not intuitive and to a far greater degree has to be learnt.

By all means comment on what interests you, but I think it's fair to suggest that without direct experience of a program there is a limit on what you can usefully say about its intuitiveness (or otherwise). For my part, I was simply passing on my view, not proselytizing for Lightroom.

Agreed with above. Lightroom does a lot, if you want it to. It has modules for setup and layout of photobooks, and one for slideshows etc.

I think it's worth mentioning that whilst Lightroom can do a lot, it's fairly intuitive to do some basics, and then you just grow with it.

You could kind of say the same with Photoshop, but all in all that's a vastly more complicated program. Also I think it's worth mentioning that Lightroom is tailored to photography work. That's quite an important point, as whilst you could do close to everything in photoshop, it's a lot easier to achieve within lightroom. Specifics such as removing chromatic aberration purple fringing etc are very well controlled within Lightroom.

If you want to alter a photo vastly, then you have to go to photoshop, but if you want to mimic the development of film negatives, then Lightroom is where it's at.

Thank you all for your help and opinions, I appreciate you all taking the time.

I'll certainly have a look at Lightroom - from what I can see, I'll need Windows 7 to use it? I'm currently on XP - although I have a copy of 7 on my desk waiting for me to find the time to install it - and the even greater time to reinstall and configure everything else!

Of course you're entitled to comment. Just think it would be fair if you qualified your comments. People might think you know what you're talking about

I don't think liking something makes you an evangelist! I had a look at Lightroom but wasn't really that impressed. It's a bit like a RAW converter with cataloguing added, neither of which I need.

However, it's right for many so that's fine and some of use Photoshop and that's fine as well. I was looking at GIMP last night and it seems very good, albeit it somewhat simplified. Great considering it's free.

Amen to that!

I tried using PDCU4, the 'Free' version of Sylkypix that came with my K-r.

I found it very difficult to get to understand until Nigel prepared his 'Mini Guide' which he posted on this Forum. I then found it very good and fairly quick.

However, I have recently moved over to PSE11 which I got as a present (mainly to carry on with the PP after developing the RAW image).

I now open the RAW files directly in PSE11 (right click on file and select 'Open With').

I find the RAW screen of PSE11 much more powerful and quicker than PDCU4 and it is also easy to use (I have never had to resort to the help files - I just play around with the sliders and see what effect they have). That is why PSE11 is now my program of choice for RAW files. It also means I can go straight to the main PSE11 screen to continue working on the image.

Much depends on how much you wish to spend - Lightroom 5, whilst much cheaper than previous versions, is STILL around 3 x the price you can get PSE11 for if you keep your eyes open !

I'm sure that those people who are 'Lightroom addicts' will insist that it is the best. However, it is 'horses for courses' and it all depends on what you want (or need) !

I'm very fond of RawTherapee, the price (free!) is obviously attractive and the batch processing features really suit my somewhat aging hardware.

Editing wise I always use GIMP, in my opinion it's the best editor available for under £100, and it's free.

Lightroom is of course far more than that.