Prime?


Frogfish

Link Posted 07/04/2011 - 14:01
johnwhit wrote:
Frogfish wrote:


Not really strange and absolutely true ... you need to guess and then input via the menu (or switch your camera off and on in between every change of focal length) the FL with a zoom if you want your SR to work accurately and not affect (blur) your shots !

That won't work with a modern AF lens on a Penta DSLR as the camera obtains the FL automatically. If I fit the DA* 300/4 + 1.4, 1.5, or 1.7x TC to the K20D (420, 450 or 510mm) the camera still sees the lens as 300mm!
So it's time to switch SR off and get the tripod out, unless you use an old manual focus TC with no contacts on the back and then you lose AF

John

John, maybe that's something to do with the K20D ? I don't have that problem with the K5 or K7 (see attached) -although the camera no longer recognises the lense as a DA*300 it retains the FL I've input and adjusts SR accordingly.



http://frogfish.smugmug.com/ Pentax. Pentax DA*300/4, Cosina 55/1.2, Lens Baby Composer Pro & Edge 80, AFA x1.7, Metz 50 af1.
Nikon. D800. D600. Sigma 500/4.5, Nikon 300/2.8 VRII, Sigma 120-300/2.8, Zeiss Distagon ZF2 21/2.8, Zeiss Distagon ZF2 35/2.0, Sigma 50/1.4, Nikkor 85/1.8, Nikon TC20EIII, Nikon TC14EII, Kenko x1.4, Sigma 2.0

Frogfish

Link Posted 07/04/2011 - 14:16
Algernon wrote:
Algernon wrote:
Quote:
As someone else said earlier - TCs are primarily made for primes.

Strange?.... most of the tests I've seen in magazines were a TC on a zoom lens, usually 70-200mm in the film days. Losses were often only 5% to 10%. If you just blow up the non TC shot by 2x you immediately lose 50% of the resolution, so 10% loss with a TC is much better.

A lot of top Canikon togs use TC's with zooms.

Sigma list their TC's for use with Zooms as well as primes.
A 70-200mm f/2.8 +TC is a very popular combination

Algi, this and your subsequent post are rather missing the point. Nowhere did I say that you can't use TCs with zooms - just that they work much better on primes as there is no issue with in-camera SR and often very little compromise on quality. Just out of thin air you could say : minus 10% with a prime and minus 20 to 30% with a zoom (depending on the zoom & the TC) . Sigma of course just want to sell more TCs / lenses !

As far as the Canon you quoted is concerned - isn't that one of the world's premier zooms of any FL ? In-lense IS along with their own TC ? Don't know if those three factors make a difference - I would guess they do.

Fact is you could keep bringing up links to some great shots or a report showing X or Y combination works - but the fact is that the variable FL is an issue that's not easy to overcome and so the better the lenses (esp. primes) then the greater the likelihood of getting good shots out of the combination - the 55-300 is hardly a premium lense, such as the Canon 70-200/2.8 though, and as I said earlier, even just a x1.4 is going to mean @300 it's now over f8, use a x.1.7 and it's f10 and x2 it's f11.6 !! None of though are conducive to great wildlife / bird photography.
http://frogfish.smugmug.com/ Pentax. Pentax DA*300/4, Cosina 55/1.2, Lens Baby Composer Pro & Edge 80, AFA x1.7, Metz 50 af1.
Nikon. D800. D600. Sigma 500/4.5, Nikon 300/2.8 VRII, Sigma 120-300/2.8, Zeiss Distagon ZF2 21/2.8, Zeiss Distagon ZF2 35/2.0, Sigma 50/1.4, Nikkor 85/1.8, Nikon TC20EIII, Nikon TC14EII, Kenko x1.4, Sigma 2.0
Last Edited by Frogfish on 07/04/2011 - 14:17

johnwhit

Link Posted 07/04/2011 - 14:26
Frogfish wrote:
John, maybe that's something to do with the K20D ? I don't have that problem with the K5 or K7 (see attached) -although the camera no longer recognises the lense as a DA*300 it retains the FL I've input and adjusts SR accordingly.



Which TC are you using?

John
Last Edited by johnwhit on 07/04/2011 - 14:26

Frogfish

Link Posted 07/04/2011 - 16:18
johnwhit wrote:
Frogfish wrote:
John, maybe that's something to do with the K20D ? I don't have that problem with the K5 or K7 (see attached) -although the camera no longer recognises the lense as a DA*300 it retains the FL I've input and adjusts SR accordingly.



Which TC are you using?

John

DA*300 + AFA x1.7
http://frogfish.smugmug.com/ Pentax. Pentax DA*300/4, Cosina 55/1.2, Lens Baby Composer Pro & Edge 80, AFA x1.7, Metz 50 af1.
Nikon. D800. D600. Sigma 500/4.5, Nikon 300/2.8 VRII, Sigma 120-300/2.8, Zeiss Distagon ZF2 21/2.8, Zeiss Distagon ZF2 35/2.0, Sigma 50/1.4, Nikkor 85/1.8, Nikon TC20EIII, Nikon TC14EII, Kenko x1.4, Sigma 2.0

thoughton

Link Posted 07/04/2011 - 16:32
For whatever reason, the Pentax 1.7x AFA is the one and only TC that will convert the focal length for the camera.
Tim
AF - Pentax K5, Sigma 10-20/4-5.6, Tamron 17-50/2.8, Sigma 30/1.4, Sigma 70-200/2.8, Tamron 70-300/4-5.6
MF - Vivitar CF 28/2.8, Tamron AD2 90/2.5, MTO 1000/11
Stuff - Metz 58 AF1, Cactus v4, Nikon SB24, Raynox 150, Sigma 1.4x TC, Sigma 2x TC, Kenko 2x macro TC, Redsnapper 283 tripod, iMac 27, Macbook Pro 17, iPad, iPhone 3G
Flickr Fluidr PPG Street Portfolio site
Feel free to edit any of my posted photos! If I post a photo for critique, I want brutal honesty. If you don't like it, please say so and tell me why!

Frogfish

Link Posted 07/04/2011 - 16:38
thoughton wrote:
For whatever reason, the Pentax 1.7x AFA is the one and only TC that will convert the focal length for the camera.

Really ? That is very interesting. I hardly ever use the x1.4 since the x1.7 is so good .... I'm just going to have to prove that to myself now (not that I don't believe you, but 'seeing is believing' and all that jazz) !
http://frogfish.smugmug.com/ Pentax. Pentax DA*300/4, Cosina 55/1.2, Lens Baby Composer Pro & Edge 80, AFA x1.7, Metz 50 af1.
Nikon. D800. D600. Sigma 500/4.5, Nikon 300/2.8 VRII, Sigma 120-300/2.8, Zeiss Distagon ZF2 21/2.8, Zeiss Distagon ZF2 35/2.0, Sigma 50/1.4, Nikkor 85/1.8, Nikon TC20EIII, Nikon TC14EII, Kenko x1.4, Sigma 2.0

johnwhit

Link Posted 07/04/2011 - 16:43
thoughton wrote:
For whatever reason, the Pentax 1.7x AFA is the one and only TC that will convert the focal length for the camera.

Yes, the Tamron/Kenko and all other Teleplus clones that support SDM (1.4x, 1.5x and 1.7x) allow the lens data straight through to the camera and you end up with 300mm and a greyed-out SD menu. But you don't get SDM with the Pentax or do you?

I've learned to live with it, after all most of the time I want a fast shutter speed for wildlife or sports photography and that suffices. Apparently a lot of top sports photogs switch IS off for the same reason.

John
PPG link

In LBA hiatus.

thoughton

Link Posted 07/04/2011 - 18:02
I dont think the 1.7x supports SDM but not really sure. I believe K10D on this forum has previously posted some 50-135 + 1.7x AFA shots here and the IQ was pretty good.
Tim
AF - Pentax K5, Sigma 10-20/4-5.6, Tamron 17-50/2.8, Sigma 30/1.4, Sigma 70-200/2.8, Tamron 70-300/4-5.6
MF - Vivitar CF 28/2.8, Tamron AD2 90/2.5, MTO 1000/11
Stuff - Metz 58 AF1, Cactus v4, Nikon SB24, Raynox 150, Sigma 1.4x TC, Sigma 2x TC, Kenko 2x macro TC, Redsnapper 283 tripod, iMac 27, Macbook Pro 17, iPad, iPhone 3G
Flickr Fluidr PPG Street Portfolio site
Feel free to edit any of my posted photos! If I post a photo for critique, I want brutal honesty. If you don't like it, please say so and tell me why!

Algernon

Link Posted 07/04/2011 - 18:32
johnriley wrote:
But what relevance does a test of Canon lenses and Tcs have to Pentax Users?

The thread seems to have drifted John.

The OP said he was a noob and a Bigma was out of the question so he asked if he could use a TC with the 55-300mm..... simple enough I use a Pentax 1.4x-s with the same lens so as far as I'm concerned it's a working partnership I even posted a couple of photos, but others claimed you couldn't use a zoom with a TC and the Canon test clearly shows you can with actual pictures and not MTF tests. Pentax would have been better, but they don't make any, so no body will have any to test.

Photographers especially amateur are well used to using what's available so to say A + B won't work is a no-no. There's even been a link on this site to a Professional Fashion Photographer using a Mobile Phone on a shoot for publication. I don't remember anyone saying you can't do that.... you need at least a 645. It wasn't long ago that they were saying you can't use 35mm it needs to be 1/4 Plate
Half Man... Half Pentax ... Half Cucumber

Pentax K-1 + K-5 and some other stuff

Algi

Don

Link Posted 07/04/2011 - 18:50
Algernon wrote:
johnriley wrote:
But what relevance does a test of Canon lenses and Tcs have to Pentax Users?

The thread seems to have drifted John.

The OP said he was a noob and a Bigma was out of the question so he asked if he could use a TC with the 55-300mm..... simple enough I use a Pentax 1.4x-s with the same lens so as far as I'm concerned it's a working partnership I even posted a couple of photos, but others claimed you couldn't use a zoom with a TC and the Canon test clearly shows you can with actual pictures and not MTF tests. Pentax would have been better, but they don't make any, so no body will have any to test.

Photographers especially amateur are well used to using what's available so to say A + B won't work is a no-no. There's even been a link on this site to a Professional Fashion Photographer using a Mobile Phone on a shoot for publication. I don't remember anyone saying you can't do that.... you need at least a 645. It wasn't long ago that they were saying you can't use 35mm it needs to be 1/4 Plate

lol!
true story...
I'm standing at the magazine rack at superstore, the other week, checking out popphotos article on the kr...
and the guy standing besides me says "I wouldn't buy that camera, real pros use Nikons"
"Really" i asked.. "Are you a pro?"
"Well I've done a few weddings, and I have won some camera club competitions... So I'm getting there"
"So Pentax is not good for pro's?" i ask.
"No, they got no lenses, and lousy image quality"..
So I walk over to other sections of the magazine rack and pull off three different publications, and hand the guy a cover shot, an ad on the back of another magazine and an inside shot of another ad in another magazine... All the shots were credited to "Light Expressions Multimedia".
I hand him my business card and whispered "Don't tell anybody I shot all those with a Pentax, ok?"
Fired many shots. Didn't kill anything.
Last Edited by Don on 07/04/2011 - 18:54

Algernon

Link Posted 07/04/2011 - 19:10
I don't know if anyone else noticed, but on the Canon test it stated:

"The 4 stop image stabiliser (vs the 2 stop of the 100-400) offers further advantages when hand-holding and shooting in lower light levels."

Quite a few Canon lenses only have a 2 stop image stabilizer and the people on here who have been criticizing the Pentax system should take note

He must have got the idea of fastening a note around an angle bracket for the test somehow off Don

This lens will cost about 10k but Frogfish reckons pros don't use converters and SHOCK! HORROR! it's a Zoom as well!!!
Half Man... Half Pentax ... Half Cucumber

Pentax K-1 + K-5 and some other stuff

Algi
Last Edited by Algernon on 07/04/2011 - 19:26

hefty1

Link Posted 07/04/2011 - 19:32
Don wrote:
true story...
I'm standing at the magazine rack at superstore, the other week, checking out popphotos article on the kr...
and the guy standing besides me says "I wouldn't buy that camera, real pros use Nikons"
"Really" i asked.. "Are you a pro?"
"Well I've done a few weddings, and I have won some camera club competitions... So I'm getting there"
"So Pentax is not good for pro's?" i ask.
"No, they got no lenses, and lousy image quality"..
So I walk over to other sections of the magazine rack and pull off three different publications, and hand the guy a cover shot, an ad on the back of another magazine and an inside shot of another ad in another magazine... All the shots were credited to "Light Expressions Multimedia".
I hand him my business card and whispered "Don't tell anybody I shot all those with a Pentax, ok?"

that would make a great TV ad - you should pitch it at Pentax Marketing
Joining the Q

Tyr

Link Posted 07/04/2011 - 20:00
hefty1 wrote:
Don wrote:
true story...
I'm standing at the magazine rack at superstore, the other week, checking out popphotos article on the kr...
and the guy standing besides me says "I wouldn't buy that camera, real pros use Nikons"
"Really" i asked.. "Are you a pro?"
"Well I've done a few weddings, and I have won some camera club competitions... So I'm getting there"
"So Pentax is not good for pro's?" i ask.
"No, they got no lenses, and lousy image quality"..
So I walk over to other sections of the magazine rack and pull off three different publications, and hand the guy a cover shot, an ad on the back of another magazine and an inside shot of another ad in another magazine... All the shots were credited to "Light Expressions Multimedia".
I hand him my business card and whispered "Don't tell anybody I shot all those with a Pentax, ok?"

that would make a great TV ad - you should pitch it at Pentax Marketing

LOL, best story EVER!
Regards,
Dan

https://www.flickr.com/photos/honourabletyr/

Frogfish

Link Posted 07/04/2011 - 22:18
Algernon wrote:
I don't know if anyone else noticed, but on the Canon test it stated:

"The 4 stop image stabiliser (vs the 2 stop of the 100-400) offers further advantages when hand-holding and shooting in lower light levels."

Quite a few Canon lenses only have a 2 stop image stabilizer and the people on here who have been criticizing the Pentax system should take note

He must have got the idea of fastening a note around an angle bracket for the test somehow off Don

This lens will cost about 10k but Frogfish reckons pros don't use converters and SHOCK! HORROR! it's a Zoom as well!!!

Algi - I started off in this thread in a very gentlemanly and civilised fashion but I'm now getting $%#&^$% pissed off with you totally ignoring what has actually been said and inserting your version of it instead !

1. FIND THE EXACT QUOTE WHERE I SAID TCs DON'T WORK WITH ZOOMS !

2. re. the actual OP's Question : I have a 55-300 and both the Tamron x1.4 and Pentax AFA x1.7 and IMHO the IQ is crap (and I'm talking real world not a chicken 10 yards away), the focus is dog slow and it can only be used in excellent light. So put up or shut up - show us your wildlife / bird shots taken with one of those combinations and I will grovel an apology. This is my comment on that - notice again how I didn't say that it doesn't work at all with the 55-300 (page 2)
Quote:
I started with cheaper 300 zoom lenses, then bought the 55-300, then added a Tamron x1.4 and then a Pentax AFA x1.7 - both excellent TCs - but they don't play nicely with the 55-300.

3. You are taking this way beyond the 'remit' of the thread, initially quoting how a (list price US$2,300) Canon 70-200 works with a TC and now using a $10,000 lense as proof that they do.

4. Your last post contains a blatant lie, stating that I said that Pros don't work with TCs - whereas what I actually said was (on Page 3 above)
Quote:
Most Pros use TCs with long primes - Pros don't often use long zooms at sporting events (and definitely not with TCs which would make the lenses too slow - in two senses of the word), just look at the plethora of white at any football match !

. I await your retraction & apology on this.

FYI - I have been heavily involved in the organisation of the world-class HSBC golf events, the Champions tennis events and F1 in Shanghai for up to 5 years (depending on how many years the actual event has been staged here), working closely with the shooters & media - I have yet to see even one with a TC (even on a prime) - almost without exception they use 300, 400 & 500 primes on tripods with something like a 70-200 slung over the shoulder. I've no doubt that a few use them here or there but it's certainly not mainstream .... probably for a very good reason.

And you totally ignored this post (page 4) - addressed to you - because it actually addresses the OPs question rather than your crusade, and still went ahead with your spurious comment - attributed to me - on Pros and TCs.

Quote:
Algi, this and your subsequent post are rather missing the point. Nowhere did I say that you can't use TCs with zooms - just that they work much better on primes as there is no issue with in-camera SR and often very little compromise on quality. Just out of thin air you could say : minus 10% with a prime and minus 20 to 30% with a zoom (depending on the zoom & the TC) . Sigma of course just want to sell more TCs / lenses !

As far as the Canon you quoted is concerned - isn't that one of the world's premier zooms of any FL ? In-lense IS along with their own TC ? Don't know if those three factors make a difference - I would guess they do.

Fact is you could keep bringing up links to some great shots or a report showing X or Y combination works - but the fact is that the variable FL is an issue that's not easy to overcome and so the better the lenses (esp. primes) then the greater the likelihood of getting good shots out of the combination - the 55-300 is hardly a premium lense, such as the Canon 70-200/2.8 though, and as I said earlier, even just a x1.4 is going to mean @300 it's now over f8, use a x.1.7 and it's f10 and x2 it's f11.6 !! None of though are conducive to great wildlife / bird photography.

I really hate that you wasted my time having to refute your increasingly snidey and inaccurate remarks. I have no problem debating a point of view and no problem apologising if I am wrong .. but I will not accept someone attributing false statements to me as you, Algi, have done.
http://frogfish.smugmug.com/ Pentax. Pentax DA*300/4, Cosina 55/1.2, Lens Baby Composer Pro & Edge 80, AFA x1.7, Metz 50 af1.
Nikon. D800. D600. Sigma 500/4.5, Nikon 300/2.8 VRII, Sigma 120-300/2.8, Zeiss Distagon ZF2 21/2.8, Zeiss Distagon ZF2 35/2.0, Sigma 50/1.4, Nikkor 85/1.8, Nikon TC20EIII, Nikon TC14EII, Kenko x1.4, Sigma 2.0
Last Edited by Frogfish on 07/04/2011 - 22:21

K10D

Link Posted 08/04/2011 - 00:34
thoughton wrote:
I dont think the 1.7x supports SDM but not really sure. I believe K10D on this forum has previously posted some 50-135 + 1.7x AFA shots here and the IQ was pretty good.

IQ was well acceptable but the 50-135 had to be in manual, then pre focused to somewhere near with the AF1.7 then locking on. My main surprise was the vast increase in speed of the focus on the K7.

As far as dialling in the FL with a TC or switching off/on to try to get the right FL for the SR, I think not. There is other kit that allows you to get the results as the horse passes the line rather than on its way back to the stables. I suppose it works well for telephoto + TC shots of static structures or stuffed birds for the wildlife fraternity.

The comment about the relevance of Canon lens testing with TC's for Pentax is only just valid as Sigma make a DSLR. The fact that they happen to make lenses to fit other makes is of benefit to the other makes.

How many Pentax users would use Canon or Nikon glass if they decided to produce it to fit Pentax DSLR's? I would imagine quite a few people as there's no shame, since a lot already use Sigma glass.

Best regards
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