PLEASE pentax: sell a pro-level digital SLR!

Howesbn said:

"Personally, I'm just holding out for the full frame betamax so I can keep the field-of-view that is the very reason I bought a 28mm and that's all i was trying to say and it's all I will say."

Actually, Howesbn, it's not all you said. Read your original post. You made a number of statements which you are now quite rightly (IMO) backing away from.

You're entitled to express your views, but if the arguments you use to support them don't add up, then you must expect people to disagree. And when you make clearly derogatory remarks about our favourite camera manufacturer like "that excuse", then you must expect people to disagree strongly.

Anyway, no hard feelings. You're a Pentax user, so you can't be all bad!

George

PS: Buy a *ist DS (or D) now. You'll have a lot of fun and gain a lot of experience while waiting for your full-frame body.

I quite agree Especially given the current price!

Correction to my earlier post: the Nikon D2X is not full frame. The Canon 1DS and 1DS mark II are full frame though... but the price !

Matt

I would never buy a pro level SLR from any manufacturer in my opinion. Firstly I've been brought up the compact Pentax way... every since I can remember my dad had a pentax MX around his neck, which explains why the MX i have on my desk has the most degraded leather case 'protecting' it. All adds to its charm.
The first problem that I have with pro slrs are that they are undoubtably larger in size. I used the canon 20D the other day and in my opinion that was too large for my hands. The canon 350D is too fiddly, and the Pentax *ist ds seems just right. Instantly I got the feeling that this would be the camera I would be most comfortable using above all others.
Sure its got 6mp as opposed to 8 or 12 or even 16, but I don't think I'll ever get to the point where I need to print out tennis court size pictures... (if I did I'd get a 6x7 digital large format)
Another feature that I gather with the pro level SLRs are that they are durable and keep working. The pentax *ist ds seems to be pretty solidly built, at least enough for me. And I'm a MX user. I doubt the pentax *ist ds is anywhere near as durable, but being a technogeek, anything involving electricity is assumed to last 3 years or less anyway.

So personally I'm going to go buy one as soon as I get the cash, load up black and white film in the MX and go shooting far to many photos.
Besides, in the next couple of years (pentax probably won't release a replacement for the *ist ds for 2 years or so) and at that point i'll reevaluate and see whether I need anything better.

The issue of full frame sensors is a red hering. Most professionals who use medium format can use most of the image area in the usual 8x10, 11x14, 16x20 print sizes. Full frame 35mm is 2:3 aspect ratio, not very useful for anything but snapshots.

I'm really depressed about this. You'd think that someone would realize that a "full frame" digtal 35mm sensor with a 3:4 or 4:5 aspect ratio would be the obvious solution to the uslessness of the edges of the 35mm frame, but wil they listen to me? Here I am, brain the size of a planet, and all they want is "fetch this part" or "open this door".

It's just such a depressing situation. But you dont't care, you have your toys and lives and what does the life of a lonely robot mean to your? It's so depressint!!

first i would like to make a point about people saying that pentax is a photo amateur brand. In the fashion industry there was only one camera used, the pentax 6x7. where i live a lot of photographers used pentax stuff.
I use the mz-s and it has all the features i need for a pro camera and am very happy with it. Especially the +/- correction button which came back after the Z1p. haven't seen this one on a digi body...

A while ago they went a sleep with Pentax. Canon made a burst, Nikon replied to it and pentax slept further...

Last week i read at dpreview that the profits were dropped 42%, and that pentax now will bring out 3 bodies a year. But we are not waiting on a Ist D-L2 with 6Mb....

It must be incredibly difficult to break into an established market, Nikon have for decades been the professional's choice. Canon also makes superb equipment and other manufacturers also have die-hard fans among the pro brigade but it's not surprising that Nikon and Canon have surged forward in that area and left the others behind.
Over the years Olympus, Contax/Yashica and Pentax have proven that they can produce extremely high quality cameras and lenses but attempting to compete with Nikon and Canon would represent a massive investment and be too risky to seriously contemplate, only photographers with professional backing would be able to afford to switch - and why would they?

I see Pentax as very much the 'Volkswagon' of photographic equipment manufacturers - high quality at affordable prices and for most people, a lightweight, user-friendly, relatively cheap, reliable, 6 megapixel DSLR is absolutely ideal.
Can you blame Pentax for concentrating on this 'amateur' section of the market?
I think you can rest assured that Pentax will indeed match the specifications of it's 'pro' competitors as and when it becomes economically viable to do so but for the meantime (and I'm talking about the 'average user' here), if you can really tell the difference between the results from a Pentax and a Nikon costing two or three times as much then you're welcome to start saving up.

Like I used to say, "given the same lens, exposure and film, can you really expect better results from an LX than a K1000?" - I don't think so!

It is quite interesting to watch market forces have there effect in the camera market. Although I am not looking at camera bodies at the moment, but lenses. The majority of my looking is on the internet. I have been looking at getting a lens around the 800mm size which I am aware is not the amateur market, I cannot seem to buy any lens for a Pentax over 600mm at the moment. I thought my problems would be solved when sigma released their two latest super tele lenses. the 300-800 zoom and a new 800 fixed. When I look at retailers I found only cannon and Nikon mounts available, so I called sigma and was told that they are not currently producing either lens for a Pentax and they do not expect that they would be in the future! obviously they do not expect to sell enough to cover production costs. Is this the effect that when professionals moved over from film to digital did those who used Pentax, move to another manufacturer because a Pentax digital SLR wasn't available? I don't know. But this cannot be a good sign, because if you cannot get the tools for the job from manufacturer X you will go to manufacturer Y. When spending thousands on camera equipment these are important questions if this was a trend that was to continue, I must emphasize that this is only two examples from one manufacturer.
Sam

Actually, the *st D is a professional grade DSLR compared with the Nikon D70 or the Canon equivalent. The viewfinder is bright and clear, you can get different focusing screens if you want, all the important controls are really easy to get to, including DOF preview.

You can even get near-instant histogram replay, for all those of the simian persuasion. Take your shot, hit the Replay button, hit Info, and there's your histogram! Then hit the Replay button and you're back in shooting mode. A two second procedure once you get used to it!

The ist-d is no longer sold in holland and the ist ds / dl is a lower clasified camera to drop prices. So there is not much digital solution for me this time with pentax....

Chase around the web. I bought my first *ist D from a company called Aden Camera in Canada. Very smooth and swift delivery to the UK, and much cheaper than if I had bought it here even after paying taxes.

You should be able to find a D somewhere, and it is a great camera.

G

Everyone seems to get really upset about this, but Pentax has a small market share compared to Canon and Nikon and as technology moves on quickly these days I guess it is more ecomical for their (subcontracted?) manufacturing plants to tool up for a single production run of a camera with a set number of units before tooling up for the next run. I expect that the DL will have a limited run before the next model.

Pentax does need to reestablish itself as a brand with new DSLR users against Nikon and Canon and seems to be doing well going for increased market share by shifting units and competing on price. Good to see the commitment to high quality lenses such as 16-45. A new higher spec model is inevitable in due course; assuming they cant dumb down the DL, and as higher res sensors get cheaper

They are probable working through the night right now to write a RAW to Tiff algorythm good enough to justify an 8mpix sensor and fit it in the old MXs body, to be released when the new 12-24 hits the market

Sorry I meant old MZs body, need to register my new PC

Kevin Stephens

Actually, I spent a large part of the last three decades earning my food and lodging as a photographer. I have used a couple of MX bodies with winders for 35mm work, I have never felt the need for anyghing else. I'm not a "name" who makes his living off endorsments, I make my living off making photographs that will hopefully make you want to buy something!

Many of my contemporaries use Pentax MF gear. It is top grade. I use Mamaya for MF, but when I needed to go digital, I could've bought a Canon or Nikon and spent money on glass, but I already have better glasss. So I got the *st D, which to my suprise, is a thoroughly professional machine. I'm not paying extra for a name that says "pro" to hobbyists, but what do I care? I'm not a hobbyist, I love what I do, and I have *st D to do my work.

I could cough up $30,000.00 US for a digital back for my RB67, but I'm not in an insane market where everybody has go impress the client with a razzle-dazzle big name. I have to impress the client with my results. So, Pentax for digital, Mamaya for big film, TOYO for sheet film.

Well said, Sir!

G

George Lazarette wrote:
Hello,
I completely agree with George`s points.
However, I wanted to add a third downside, which is critical for me and currently keeps me waiting for full framed DSLR:
I`m talking here about a difference in DOF. You say, that I should be happy, cause my 50/1.4 becomes 85/1.4 and is ideal for portrait. That`s right, but the DOF characteristics of such a lens on APS DSLR is different than 35mm 85/1.4. It`s a lot wider on APS DSLR - therefore making it a bit less valuable for portrait, IMHO.

Concluding my view:
IMO, the prices of DSLRs will go down, as it is true with computer parts. Because those DSLR cameras a r e in fact small computers!
That`s why I`m also optimistic, and decided to wait for a MZS Digital, I believe I won`t be waiting longer than 1-1,5 years
Till then happily shooting with my Z1p ! )

It`s a great forum!
Cheers,
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artykris
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