Pentax FF Dead, Maybe

No one has implied or said they resent anyone spending £6,000 on a lens

I would love a Pentax 560mm - any one offering to buy it for me

I saved up for a 15mm ltd then my better half reallocated the money to her car fund

Not entirely true - she some how got me to offer it

The compact market is collapsing because mobile phones ( or more accurately defined as personal devices ) can now take pictures just as good for most people's needs.

In fact the performances of personal device cameras is goign to get even better that it will eat into the APS-C market too. I think that's why one of Canon's executives was talking about FF being the standard for DSLRs in the future. And once that happens the economy of scale means that FF won't cost £2k anymore and a camera of the price and feature level of the K-30 will be FF


Interesting times ahead

I didn't like the MX-1 not having a viewfinder (and stated that was a deal breaker), having looked at one I changed my mind and bought one. A pared down DSLR just isn't what Pentax need right now, they need mass market / cool stuff that builds the brand and a good range of DSLRs and lenses to go with it and a good distribution chain.

People don't buy CaNikon as their first DSLR because they have FFs or the Pro's use them, they buy them because the retailers are wall to wall CaNikon with very little of anything else (and they're easier for the sales people to sell). Sony have their own presence due to their other consumer products and don't really care about their old Minolta users.

Pentax need to push their USPs (weather sealing, SR with any lens, lens compatibility, Ltd lenses etc.) more and more effective marketing. The most prominent comment in the K-01 reviews was the name of the bloke who 'designed' it (someone I'd never heard of before - or since). Apparently he also designed the DA 40 pancake - all 10mm of it. A bit more razzamatazz about the camera itself might have been more effective.

This is a report from this weeks Amateur Photographer:-

Quote:
A ‘new breed’ of photographers aged 30 and over are shunning camera phones to invest in high-end photographic equipment instead, according to a new study.

Insurance firm Photoguard reports a 88% rise in 30-34-year-olds taking out specialist photographic insurance over the past five years.

The internal study - drawn from Photoguard data relating to more than 10,000 people - found that these photographers own £5,748 worth of camera gear.

The results also show a rise in young people investing in photography - with a 39% increase in 20-24 year-olds taking out specialist insurance from 2007-2012.

Cameras are insured for an average of £1,108 with accessories such as lighting, tripods and lenses adding an extra £1,192 to the total value of insurance cover.

Commenting on the findings, Photoguard boss Adrian Scott said: ‘Our data suggests camera phones do not cut it for everybody and an increasing number of photographers are prepared to kit themselves put with more expensive professional gear.

FF is a photographic legacy and is really only relevant to relatively few photographers (most of whom are using it because it is currently the 'best' cost effective option). Sensors are going to get smaller with higher resolutions and a smaller sensor will always be preferred by the electronics industry.

Consumers generally are more impressed by cameras that run Android or have Wifi and instant social media uploading - all of which are much cheaper/easier than bigger sensors. That's why the biggest negative comment in reviews for the K-5/ii is that there's no dedicated movie recording button. FF is not the way to go in this environment.

[quote:3496ace15f="Defragged"]This is a report from this weeks Amateur Photographer:-
That suggests more to me that more people are prepared to buy specialist gadget insurance (on top of their smart phone/tablet contracts & insurance) and it doesn't necessarily relate to sales of kit.

I'm not talking about general consumers I'm talking about DSLR users....

http://www.dpreview.com/articles/0336328811/cp-2013-interview-with-canons-masaya...

"but the future of semi-pro DSLRs is probably full-frame, says Masaya Maeda, Managing Director and Chief Executive, Image Communication Products Operations at Canon"

"Now that full frame is appearing in cameras the size and price of the 6D, the future of APS-C at the semi-pro level is in doubt, he says: 'That's something we're considering at the moment. From our semi-pro users there's still demand for APS-C but in the future, I think we will see an increase in the number of full-frame models.' "

Indeed as Mobile Phone cams destroy the compact market and even start to compete with larger cameras by offering a decent IQ coupled with transportability then the semi-Pro DSLR market is goign to ahve to boost itself up a step to regain a market sector.

Which is why FF is the best way to go in this market and I agree with Canon's Masaya Maeda, even if his name does sound like an Asian Curry dish

And call me crazy but I predict that in not so many years we'll see the first £1,000 medium format digital camera. The price of silicon has always come down and as the lower end gets better the manufacturers need to maintain a difference between that and the high end.

Possibly, in the semi-pro market. But that isn't really where Pentax are just yet.

I think APSC is going to remain the enthusiast DSLR territory for a good while yet. For sure as small sensor quality in cameras improves it will meet more people's needs and there will be some migration from APSC to camera but those APSC sensors have a sufficient size differential they are always going to be significantly better and an attractive option for enthusiast DSLRs. And why would would the majority of DSLR users trade up (size and cost as well as IQ) to FF when they are already satisfied with APSC and it will only get better?

As film/sensor quality improves required format size goes down. Always.

I tend to agree with Smeggipants. As soon as any manufacturer releases a reasonable priced FF SLR , All the others have to follow.
This does not only apply to professionals or semis, This applies to anyone who is a fan of SLR's. Professionals or Amateurs alike. The Advertising from the companies which have them ensure, that APS-C will be forgotten and it will all be FF. At least in the SLR market.
If this happens, and I believe it will be in the near future, and if Pentax does not follow, it will be the end of Pentax SLR's. That is if it is still in existence by then.

Why is this my belief? Simple logic. Looking back to see the advances in silicon over the last few years,it is easy to see, that a FF sensor , cost-wise and quality wise will not be long in coming.
APS=C and other smaller sensors where only used , because it was about the best that could be done at a reasonable cost. This will change.
The more Cameras with FF are made, the cheaper will the sensors become.
Size will not be a problem. Naturally, the FF sensor is larger than an APS-C. Big deal. There are much less mechanical components in a digital camera . Also there will be more efficient batteries which can for a smaller size deliver as much power then the existing ones.

If sensor quality improves, it will improve with all sizes.Then you'r back to the beginning. A larger sensor will always be more universal and better.

Regards, Horst

....and will wildlife photographers want full frame....reducing the focal length of their long lenses? .....just a thought

How's using a different sensor going to change the focal length of a lens? That's nonsense.

John K

There are plenty of wildlife togs who shoot Canon, despite Canon offering FF cameras.

You can always crop a FF image to get an APSC equivalent image too...

.

The focal length does stay the same. For example a 300mm lens is always a 300mm lens.
The Rabbit or whatever wildlife you photograph is the same size. You just get some extra on the image. Maybe a second rabbit.
If you crop it back to APS-C size your rabbit is exactly the same size as with an APC-S sensor. Without any loss in quality.

Regards, Horst