OK - so what / who is a Pro ?

from the pro v entry level thread .

OK we all have cameras - some have more than others and some have gear in multiple quantities

What makes a 'pro' -

Is it necessarily someone with a clutch of cameras [ and associated gear ] ?

Is it someone with just one camera ?

Is it the results they obtain ?


I was thinking that maybe we should leave out the financial side of this - ie a 'pro' is not necessarily someone who makes his living out of photography , though clearly many will.

I pick up a camera, odds are I'm getting paid.
That makes me a pro.

Wow Techno. a very profound post. surely if money is not going to be an issue that can be mentioned, then surely a 'pro' is someone who has a broad and versatile photographic style. afterall, we can all specialise in one aspect but to execel in many aspects surely sets you apart as a 'pro'.

Or is it dedication to his/her craft? eg, spending five hours outside in the middle of the night freezing yer 'patooties' off just to wait for that speical fleeting moment.?!

You cannot ignore the financial side.

A pro earns money an amateur/hobbyist in general does not.

Personally I judge someone to be a pro if it is their primary source of income or possibly a significant part of their income. Someone who depends on their skills to eat and have shelter has a totally different outlook to someone who does the same thing for pleasure but can at any time just say 'stuff it I'm bored/this is too hard/I don't know how to do this' and walk away. A very nice luxury I for one value highly.

Again in my opinion it has nothing to do with equipment.

Mike

Well, money is the primary aspect that separates amateurs from professionals. if I eanred a living from photography, then I would have to call myself a professional photographer because it would be my 'profession'

i get piad to give advice on all apsects of construction, and I am a professional in my field. Wouldnt be too please if someone said I was an amateur (thoughI'm sure smome of my colleagues got their quals from the back of a cornflakes packet!)

Yes I would say you're a Pro if it's income generator.

Hmmmm

I'll come back in on this later I do have some more thoughts - but I want to let this run for a bit first .

If you look at it by the sports standard, if you get paid for one submission to whatever and are published and compensated for it, then you are a pro. But does that make you one? Probably not. I was listening to several podcast lately, and the consensus among many is that a pro is one that is extremely proficient in his craft, and though may be compensated, may not make his living entirely from it. remember there are many weekend warriors that are Wedding photographers, portrait photographers, etc., and because they do not derive their entire living from it does not make them any less pro, than those that do.

It is a matter of the artistry and expertise that they produce the product, in this case the photographic image that makes them the pro. Don't sell yourself short. What defines a professional, is one that is a master of his craft, and produces a product that is in demand.

The Photomonk

Photomonk - I should have banned you from this You have brought up SOME of the aspects that I was considering - but not all by any means.

Mind you - I'm still going to let this run .

BTW, one last comment, I do derive part of my income from my photography since it is part of my regular work, but there are other things I do shoot. These may or may not be part of an income builder since they are long-term documentary projects.

The Photomonk

OK - now my turn .

To me a 'pro' is a craftsman - he has learnt his skills and shows them to the best of his ability [ I'm not talking necessarily here about photographers ].

His work is seen by others and should be appreciated by them .

I just wonder if it's possible to become a 'pro' by real-on-the-job-experience , or is it necessary to have to go to College / Uni/ whatever , to get a good training ?

Yes , as regards photography , there is a lot of technical 'know how' needed , this I freely admit - but does this have to be taught in the Uni setting ?

Can these skills be gained from an apprenticeship ?

Do we always have to prove ourselves by a clutch of paper qualifications ?

subject dead center, kids not smiling.
excessivly grainy.. Technical FAIL, PORTRAITURE FAIL...
Pro shot though... helped end support for the vietnam war.


feet cut off, dark exposure, another technical fail..
but a pro shot .

that is just reportage... there are so many other examples in many fields.

True craftsmanship doesn't always equate to paying jobs.
Some artisans will not get recognition for thier talent in thier lifetime.

But here's a question for you:
On a paying job, I have a magazine cover coming out this month or next. I got paid.
Someone else came up with the concept, the idea, and hired the talent, so the only thing I did was set up the lights and camera. Is it a pro shot?

You get paid you are a pro.
the answers you seek, to your question has nothing to do being a pro, but everything to do with "How do you become a better photographer" the first answer you got was they only right answer to the question.

The financial side is the ONLY thing that separates the Pro from the Amateur.

It seems that being a "professional" can mean three different things.

The oxford english dictionary says of professional

1 relating to or belonging to a profession.
2 engaged in an activity as a paid occupation rather than as an amateur.
3 worthy of or appropriate to a professional person; competent.


meaning one I think relates to the tools used being of standard capable of producing consistant high quality work over a period of time.

meaning two there is the inescapeable aspect of pay.

If you earn your income from photography then that makes you a professional photographer what ever the standard of your equipment or output - and I'm sure that we have all heard horror stories of the professional photographers who have turned out rubbish work; there was even one sued a while back due to the appaling wedding shots he took.
Semi-pro would be someone who regularly suplements their income from another job by paid photographic work.
Amateur in this sense is some one who does not get paid (or only get paid infrequently).

meaning three is the aspect of skill in and mastery of the trade. We say someone is a pro by virtue of their approach to the task in hand. There is an expectation that someone who is paid will turn out work of a certain quality.
In this sense an amateur is someone who has poor skills and is not master of the trade.

At the end of the day I think all three aspects need to be present in order for someone to be truely a professional - the person who is paid but doesn't produce the goods will not be paid for very long, the person who uses poor tools will sooner or later find themselves let down by those tools and the person who does not approach the task correctly (e.g. bussiness plan, insurance, backup equipment) will find their business fails.


No disrespect intended to any individual, but outstanding talent is not necessary to be a professional - many amateurs have that. Good tools and consistant competancy, will enable anyone with a sound bussiness plan to suceede - of course flair, talent and style will enable a higher standard of success and a higher standard of professional income

Don - I think you and I are on a different level

I'll agree with you about those examples .

OK let's turn back again to being paid for the 'job'

Over here [ UK ] we have, as everyone knows, some very very good newspapers and some less good ones [ naming no names / titles ]

Now those who write for them are proud [ usually ] of being professional journalists and of course this attitude spreads down the line so-to-speak to the guys who write for the local papers. Many of these have been on courses at varying levels [ and have the Certificates / Diplomas / Degrees etc to prove it ,and they are proud of their skills BUT sadly many of them make the most elementary mistakes in grammar and these errors are not picked up by Sub editors and are published without correction. Result - the young folk who are still attending school see it and think this is acceptable - if you point out the error you are told you know nothing , they have been to Uni and therefore cannot make mistakes . They are card carrying 'Professional Journalists ' - these folk are in fact letting their colleagues down and bringing the profession into disrepute.
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You said
Of course it's a pro shot - you have to produce the goods which satisfy your employers' wishes otherwise you don't get paid for the job - and you have to use your skills to ensure that what they want to get over is indeed portrayed in your resulting photograph/s - that is where skill / knowledge and technical expertise comes in.

Bob - thank you

Yes you have indeed brought the other aspects in on this

Your final paragraph makes it crystal clear to my mind .

And I'm not decrying the skills of anyone on this board - you all know so much that all I can do is figuratively sit at your feet , and attempt to learn from you