New Full Frame W-A Primes - when?

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ronniemac

Link Posted 23/06/2017 - 15:59
Pentax did a sterling job releasing five new excellent zoom lenses for the release of the K-1, even if two of these were developed by Tamron (and I'm OK with that).

I know that a new 50mm F1.4 is in development and soon to be followed by a new fast 85mm, but I am surprised that nothing is in evidence of development let alone release of the Wide-Angle Single Focus Lens and the Large Aperture Ultra Wide-Angle Single Focus Lens that feature in their ff lens chart. The 15-30 is a great lens, but so big that it sometimes is left behind when travelling light(ish) - that's why I hope for a wide prime.

Some time ago I dreamed that Pentax released an affordable plastic 28mm F2.8, an FA 24mm F2.4 Limited and a D-FA* 20mm F2.0, (and later a D-FA 100-300mm zoom to compliment the fantastic D-FA 28-105mm) but then I woke up to where we are now.

Guess I'll just have to be patient, but release of W-A primes does seem to be taking rather a long time. I know things are difficult for Ricoh, but perhaps a positive response to the Poll Question will give them a little bit more incentive.

P.S. Good are they might be, I cant see myself buying a manual focus Samyang or Irix etc. I prefer auto-focus and thus far have restricted myself to Pentax lenses.
Last Edited by ronniemac on 23/06/2017 - 16:01

HarisF1

Link Posted 23/06/2017 - 16:04
Many of the current (and older) FF lenses suffer from CA issues so I agree, a refresh should really be on the cards. The latest D-FA zooms have shown how strong Pentax can play the game when they make an effort.
All the gear with no idea

johnha

Link Posted 23/06/2017 - 18:37
Pentax FF and the K-1 is still relatively young. The lenses favoured by most of those looking to buy a high-end DSLR basically fall into a selection from the following: 15-30, 24-70/2.8, 70-210/2.8, 100-400 (these are the 'Flagship' lenses and represent the bulk of the lenses used by CaNikon high-end users). The emphasis on these 'high-end' options creates large, heavy & expensive zoom lenses. Affordable 28-105 & 70-300 are also needed. Prime users are catered for by the Ltd 31, 43 & 77 and FA50/DA50.

The problem with WA primes is that a whole family is needed - most of which can be achieved from the current zooms. Sales of WA primes are going to be limited, but you'd need at least: 20/2.8, 24/2, 28/2.8, 35/2 - in all cases, sales of each of these individual lenses are going to be tiny (all apart from a 28/2.8 would be very expensive and even that wouldn't be 'inexpensive'). Independent manufacturers can re-coup the development costs across all mount varieties.

When I was looking for an FA 20/24mm (I couldn't decide which), I'd have loved to be able to choose from 20/4 & 24/2.8 (I don't need a large aperture WA, I may have gone for both). Being limited to the 20/2.8 & 24/2 (both of which were expensive and rare) I ended up with the FA 20-35/4 - a lens which is much more sensible to me than a huge 15-30.

WA lenses always suffer from CA, the only question is how much is acceptable or not.

John.
Last Edited by johnha on 23/06/2017 - 18:40

Algernon

Link Posted 23/06/2017 - 19:39
Strangely I've not seen anyone asking for what was the most popular telephoto prime for 35mm cameras Are photographers really that daft these days

--
Half Man... Half Pentax ... Half Cucumber

Pentax K-1 + K-5 and some other stuff

Algi

ronniemac

Link Posted 23/06/2017 - 23:20
Algernon wrote:
Strangely I've not seen anyone asking for what was the most popular telephoto prime for 35mm cameras Are photographers really that daft these days
--

Perhaps this is a reference to the 135mm prime that was so popular back in the day? I understand that this lens was popular because it was considered to be suitable for hand holding in average light conditions with standard film (64 - 125 asa) without incurring shake reduction. With IBIS, hand holding is perfectly possible with 100mm, 200mm, and 300mm primes - which pentax manufacture and I already use.

So why do you think we are daft Algi? (I may well be, but where did you get the idea?)

johnriley

Link Posted 24/06/2017 - 00:04
The 135mm lens was popular because it was the longest length that could be used accurately on a rangefinder camera. In other words, the SLR inherited a strange focal length that has, IMHO, little to commend it. I find it too long for portraits, for example.
Best regards, John

Helpful

ronniemac

Link Posted 24/06/2017 - 00:05
johnha wrote:
Pentax FF and the K-1 is still relatively young. The lenses favoured by most of those looking to buy a high-end DSLR basically fall into a selection from the following: 15-30, 24-70/2.8, 70-210/2.8, 100-400 (these are the 'Flagship' lenses and represent the bulk of the lenses used by CaNikon high-end users). The emphasis on these 'high-end' options creates large, heavy & expensive zoom lenses. Affordable 28-105 & 70-300 are also needed. Prime users are catered for by the Ltd 31, 43 & 77 and FA50/DA50.

Good points John, and Pentax have done well to give us most of these options - hopefully an affordable lightweight 70-300 is on its way too. The 150-450 is an excellent long range alternative to the 100-400, but I always think twice before carrying it up a mountain! I do like the Limiteds, especially the 31mm but there are times when I would like the more dramatic effect that 20-24mm offers. Perhaps I've been spoiled with the 15 Ltd on APS-C.

johnha wrote:
The problem with WA primes is that a whole family is needed - most of which can be achieved from the current zooms. Sales of WA primes are going to be limited, but you'd need at least: 20/2.8, 24/2, 28/2.8, 35/2 - in all cases, sales of each of these individual lenses are going to be tiny (all apart from a 28/2.8 would be very expensive and even that wouldn't be 'inexpensive'). Independent manufacturers can re-coup the development costs across all mount varieties.

Pentax pretty well already cover the 28 - 35 range with their current range although I wouldn't say no to a plastic 28mm 2.8. But with Pentax promoting the K-1 primarily as a landscape camera, I think they are right to be talking about a Wide-Angle Prime and the Large Aperture Ultra Wide-Angle Prime in their FF lens road map. I guess that's why I'm champing at the bit!

johnha wrote:
When I was looking for an FA 20/24mm (I couldn't decide which), I'd have loved to be able to choose from 20/4 & 24/2.8 (I don't need a large aperture WA, I may have gone for both). Being limited to the 20/2.8 & 24/2 (both of which were expensive and rare) I ended up with the FA 20-35/4 - a lens which is much more sensible to me than a huge 15-30.

The FA 20-35 F4 does look like a gem, so small and light (8.6 oz.) compared with the huge and heavy 15-30 at 36.7oz! Sadly they're as scarce as unicorn poo. Patience has never been my strong point, but I guess it will be worth the wait for the road map lenses - until then I'll build up my muscles with the 15-30,

With the existing range of FF Pentax Primes I've learned to live with CA and sort it out in PP, but it would certainly be nice to not have to.

stub

Link Posted 24/06/2017 - 01:20
Id be interested to know the size of the K-1 Market if anyone knows... As honestly that will tell you how many lenses we can begin to expect.. Personally, certainly in the short to medium term I still think Pentax/ Ricoh should be talking with Sigma.

Algernon

Link Posted 24/06/2017 - 08:30
The 135mm on FF was an excellent portrait lens. See.....

http://flickriver.com/search/nikon%20+135mm%20+%20portrait/interesting/

Pentax releasing one would also give the moaners a few other things to moan about such as they can't get shots in focus

I saw a checklist the other day that had For and Against in the FOR Column it had.....

No 284:: You can use it to take photographs

This isn't good publicity Watch from 19:00 mins
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMIJLgby44Q

--
Half Man... Half Pentax ... Half Cucumber

Pentax K-1 + K-5 and some other stuff

Algi
Last Edited by Algernon on 24/06/2017 - 08:40

Algernon

Link Posted 24/06/2017 - 09:10
This is a well known Pentax tog who uses the 135mm quite a lot....

https://www.flickr.com/photos/bongmanayon/with/2914953388/

All APS-C which isn't as suitable for a 135mm as a FF is.

--
Half Man... Half Pentax ... Half Cucumber

Pentax K-1 + K-5 and some other stuff

Algi
Last Edited by Algernon on 24/06/2017 - 09:15

1stEverPentax

Link Posted 24/06/2017 - 13:37
I don't have a K-1 but don't feel that Ricoh is doing enough bringing out new lenses across the whole range
of FF/APS-C.

If I could zero in on a specific focal range, I would say they desperately need to offer an affordable prime 400mm and also a 100-400 f5.6 or possibly even 80-400. Also a 'quality' 70-300 that would work well with their 1.4 convertor would be nice. By 'affordable' i'm thinking in terms of less than 1k max...ideally 700-800.

With good quality, reasonably priced long telephoto zooms available by both Sigma and Tamron, new entrants to the DSLR market would be better off going with Canikon for sports, wildlife, aviation. Ricoh can't surely afford to alienate this large number of people and stay in the camera business in my view.

JAK

Link Posted 24/06/2017 - 15:24
I have a K-1 and several Pentax FF Wide-Angle auto-focus primes already.
(Can't find that option to tick in the poll!)
John K
Last Edited by JAK on 24/06/2017 - 15:26

ronniemac

Link Posted 24/06/2017 - 17:55
JAK wrote:
I have a K-1 and several Pentax FF Wide-Angle auto-focus primes already.
(Can't find that option to tick in the poll!)

Fair point John, I guess these must be legacy lenses. The idea of the post is to ascertain if members on this forum are waiting for Ricoh to release a new wide angle prime, wide angle being anything with a focal length at or below 28mm - they already offer 31 and 35.

If you would prefer Ricoh to put their resources into other areas, then you might want to select the third option, although it would have been much better if I had added 'new' as in I have a K-1 but do not want a new FF Wide-Angle prime. Sorry about that, but it's really good to know you are happy with the legacy wide angle lenses you are using.

Out of interest, which ones are these and how do you rate them?

JAK

Link Posted 24/06/2017 - 20:12
The FA* 24/2 AL [IF] isn't bad at all. Prefer it to the Sigma which I also have.
Looking for a FA 20mm f2.8, I adored the old K f4 version which got stolen, I have an M version which lacks something by comparison.
K 17/4 Fish-Eye (OK not AF but pretty well could be fixed focus!)
Intend to get a K 15 & K 18 when I see them for the right price/condition, mainly as collectors items rather than to use though. AF doesn't matter with 20mm or less as one can have from several inches to infinity in focus with a small aperture and what's wrong with twisting a focus dial anyhow!?
If Pentax brought out a new wide angle it would have to be competitively priced before I considered purchasing it. I'm pretty happy with the old lenses given chromatic aberration only really rears its head when pixel peeping. It is when using the older lenses on APS-C it gets magnified and might be a problem. I find CA with the older glass used at its intended 36x24 isn't normally a problem other than with some of the cheapie F and FA consumer zooms which weren't sold as top rate glass; and some of those can be bad veering on unusable!
Also have the Samyang 14mm and 12mm Fish-Eye. Not AF but at that focal length AF is unimportant and both are fine and fit for purpose probably at less than a third the cost of what a new Pentax equivalent would be.
So not unduly worried whether Pentax bring out a new FF wide angle or not, I've more than enough to be getting on with!
John K
Last Edited by JAK on 24/06/2017 - 20:17

sebas77

Link Posted 24/06/2017 - 21:44
Ah I am the only one happy with my irix 15mm. Fantastic lens.
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