K20d or k7 any advice

Looking at buying one of these second hand, any advice gratefully received.
I'm currently using a k10d and I'm looking for a second body.
Steve

the k20 is the same layout as your k10

the k7 is a differant layout and i would say lighter

me personaly like the k20 but why not go for a k5 as there are some good deals out there

Have to say I am a big fan of the K7, loved mine and wish I had not sold it.
That said, if you can stretch to a K5ii I would recommend one.

I had the K7, wonderful sharpness and clarity in the shots but found the noise at anything higher than ISO 800 was terrible, luckily enough i received the K5 as a Christmas present, fantastic noise reduction at high ISO and the K7 was sold.

The OP is comparing the K7 with the K20 ....I would have thought the K7 improved on the noise performance of be earlier model , certainly in terms of its processing capabilities .... ?

Nigel has assiduously listed the main advantages of the the more modern camera. I would highlight the differences in handling: the two cameras are quite unlike each other.

I'm lucky enough to have a K10 and K5 and enjoy using both, but prefer the "feel" and layout of the K10 (similar to a K20). But this is a personal thing and the smaller K7 may well be more to your liking.

I know the final image is the most important thing but the way a camera handles and what it's like to use matters too. The pictures I brought back from a recent trip abroad are fine (well, they look OK to me) but the MX-1 is a pain in the neck to use, with its lethargic processor and hard-to-see screen (no different to any other compact in this)

I couldn't agree more with Andrew there ... Getting the images you want is not only about sensor performance. Sometimes, reading these forums when cameras are being compared, it would be easy to assume that the sensor and it's low light performance is the only important thing to worry about.

Of course that's not true .... As Andrew says, it's as much about the handling and style, the ways in which the camera body, in a physical and 'man-machine interface' kind of way, interact with the user and either enhance or impair the practical image capture process. This includes all sorts of very important aspects .... Body shape, control placement, use of physical switches and other direct access tools instead of menu diving, live view focusing aids, the viewfinder, accessories like remote control, features like wireless flash cababilities ....

To me, all of these are MORE important than sensor performance ... Ultimately they will all add up and help me get great shots, or assist with difficult shots. That's what I mainly value in a camera. Many aspects of sensor output can be adjusted or compensated for in processing ... But all the features I've been listing here are what will come together to give you the best chance of the ideal capture.

I didn't have a K20, but I know it was a bit bigger. I like a large camera and the K7 with grip is ideal ... The grip offers great extra stability and the same feel and control layout for portrait orientation, as well as the the extra battery options.

There is also one other point which no one as said and that is the k20 as the Samsung influence where as the k7 as the Ricoh influence there is a big differance there

we all know the K7 is Nigel's love child but the K5 series did give improvements over it with the K5 11s probably being the peak of that series as by then you had improved ISO performance which is not just about being in the dark but just being indoors where sometimes you need to up it without creating yourself more pp work, the sensor on K5 series also gave higher dynamic range and with the 11s the AA filter was removed to give sharper images from camera so again less pp time. i agree wholeheartedly with Nigel on the series body/control layout, that is why i bought the K7 . the K7/K5 camera's are easy to use and understand. the K3 is a great camera but does have a bigger learning curve if you want the best out of it from what i have gathered reading the forums here and other places. so my suggestion would be K5 11s

The K7 came out early in 2009 when Pentax was still with Hoya, so not much Ricoh influence probably .... It includes a Samsung sensor. I have heard it said on here that the sensor is the same as in the K20, but my Magic Lantern guidebook by Peter Burian suggests otherwise....

In the list of new features he says ..'New 14.5 mp CMOS sensor with four-channel readout for greater speed and for video capture ability ....' Earlier in his introduction he writes ' ...it is not merely an upgrade over the K20, it is entirely new in many aspects, such as construction, sensor, and processor technology ....'

Of course I will sell the pluses of my special camera ....that Is after all my purpose in life .... But we were asked to compare the K20 and K7 , presumably because that is the price point that the OP is looking at. I fully accept the valid points about what the K5 series added to the K7 in terms of sensor performance, and later with the K5ii and the improved AF .....but those are all more expensive cameras. I don't question their excellent value, and indeed, some may feel they offer even better value than a K7 , which could be a fair point. But comparing the K20 vs K7, is it not fair to say that with the K7 you're getting a significant amount more for your money ..... ?

I think that if you buy ether of thes cameras you will still play with the k10 a lot as I think it is a far better camera than both the above

Looks like the K10 is YOUR love child then Stu! Surely though, putting aside the very personal issue of the CMOS vs CCD 'character' , could you really say that the K10 was a better camera? The K7, (as I've demonstrated by my listing earlier), introduced a huge number of important developments and technology improvements, and paved the way for the K5 ... Can you list things that are really better on the K10 ... ?

what i personly think dose not matter what matters is to get the camera what you are happy with and you like
and the only way to find out is to try the cameras in Question

i bet nigel as a k7 in his persetion
and i have a k20 in mine the best way would be to meet up somewhere so steve could try them and see what he thinks

My goodness, Stu. The word "better" is pretty dogmatic here. Much as I love my K10, I would be hard-put to claim that it is "better" than the aforementioned cameras in any respect other than, perhaps, very low ISO performance, yet even that would be debatable. If the K7 focuses as accurately and as swiftly as a K5, for example, then it is certainly "better" in that respect alone.

But I think we may be muddying the waters here and not helping answer Steve's original query.