k200 vs k20

hello all,

first real post - been a forum lurker for awhiles... I am looking at getting my first DSLR - have used a few friends etc and I come from a film / slide background shooting mostly on a retro p30n with a number of lenses - hence I want to keep with pentax to use my old lenses....


Now, I would love a K20 or a K7 but I have to be realistic money wise! A K200 seems to tick most of the boxes - I like a camera with AA batteries ( easy to get them wherever you are )and one with a bit of weight as it all helps to steady a shot !

Ok questions :

Is the K200 now being replaced witha KM? not many places seem to advertise the K200 now...

Am I going to regret buying a K200 vs a K20?

Is the kit 18/55 lens a dog or ok? I want to use my old 28/80 macro SMC and a SMC 50mm and a SMC 70/210 from the p30... will these be ok to start



All in all I want a camera to take landscape shots so manual focus ok and maybe shoot birds of prey at falconry days etc so therefore i maybe need autofocus.... hmmm... I wished i had a new camera at Gigrin farm a few months back re red kites !

Whats the general consensus?

many thanks in advance

paul

depends on your money you have and the k200 is no longer being made, and are hard to get hold of, and the k20s are going up to over £600 body only soon,i have a k200d for sale and some other stuff if its to any interes to you, as do a couple of other forum members look in the classified section,
https://www.pentaxuser.com/forum/topic/open-to-offers-13426

https://www.pentaxuser.com/forum/view/classified-adverts-15

Hi Snowpaul,
I changed from a Nikon D40 to a K200D and love it!
The camera is built like a battleship, is waterproof/dustproof, runs on AA's, takes great shots especially in Raw.It does underexpose at times but I use it in manual mostly so not a prob.

The 18-55 is good for a kit lens. in the right conditions the results can be staggeringly good-not a dog imo
You can't really buy a bad pentax imho.

good luck with your decision

Regards

Chris
K200D (silver)

K200D is a lovely camera, but I think it's pretty much discontinued now. You may be able to get a s/h one about £250-£300. I got mine for £280.

However unless the small size and AA capability of the K200D appeals specifically, the K20 is a tremendous s/h bet at the moment, as people upgrade to the K-7... about £450. For the extra money you get more external controls, live-view, and improved resolution (will you really be able to tell at normal print sizes though)

The 18-55mkII is far from a dog! It's actually a very capable lens, and it's nicely built for a kit lens.

Your old lenses will be usable though, perhaps in manual mode if they are M lenses. I had the 28-80; surprisingly decent for an old zoom IMO!

For info, I was in Birmingham last Friday and Jacobs have a new K200D with kit lens in the window. From memory the price was about £380. May be worth giving them a call?

Hi Paul,

You asked about the 18-55 kit lens...

They are well regarded and worth getting at the same time as a body as the prices of body+lens are often only a small percentage greater than body only.

The quality of kit zoom lenses is masses better than zoom lens of 10/15 years back and can seriously compete with fixed focal length lenses.

A Pentax DSLR has a sensor (APS-C size) which is smaller than a 35mm film frame this means that a lens which was 'wide enough' on you film SLR will now cover less area in the DSLR picture - only the middle portion of a 35mm picture will be taken when the lens is used with an APS-C sized sensor.

This is often called the crop factor and is equivalent to 1.5 between 35mm film and digital Pentax SLR. It makes your 28mm lens on digital give the same coverage as a 42mm lens on film.

NOTE the focal length does not change and the depth of field does not change only the effective angle of view of the lens.

As you say landscape is a major interest then to get the same angle of view that your 28mm lens gave you on 35mm you would need to buy a 18mm lens to use with an APS-C digital sensor.

If you don't get the kit lens then I think you will probably regret it and end up paying more for a kit lens (or equivalent) very soon.

Good for 50% though since the circle of confusion with APS-C sensor is smaller the DOF is smaller as well.

The 18-55 would give the same angle of view on digital that your 28-80 macro does now on film also the minimum focus distance is the same I believe (0.25m) so it's a true replacement.

The K200D is a very good camera but there are some reasons to get a K20D though.
- Prism viewfinder
- 2 control dials (very handy in manual mode)
- better high iso performance (lower the K200D probable win but both are very good)

If you can get a K20D it would be a more fulling camera I believe, something that will stay with you longer then the K200D may.

This is a thing that's often misquoted, but smaller formats have more DOF for a given field of view and that's because the focal length of the lens to achieve that field of view is shorter.

An extreme example is that a Minox with its 15mm standard lens has such an immense FOV that it doesn't need to be focused even at f3.5, having DOF from 9 inches to infinity. The circle of confusion is minute to make a reasonable sized print.

A Rolleiflex TLR (6x6cm) uses an 80mm lens and has relatively little DOF by comaprison, but also has a larger circle of confusion as less emlargement is needed.

So an APS-C DSLR will have more DOF than a full frame one. We know this is true - look how difficult it is to get an out of focus background with a compact digital camera with its tiny sensor.

Ah yes didn't though about that stupid me

Did a comparison with the FA*85 and the DA*55.
The DA*55 can be seen as a digital replacement of the FA*85 on 35mm format. He is a part of that comparison.

About the circle of confusion.
So the circle of confusion. still makes a significant difference of
almost 40cm.
Good the photos would be very different but still it has some effect on the DOF and I'm quite glad of that.

It's not the circle of confusion that causes your second observation, but the difference in magnification. They are different images so it doesn't have a relevance to DOF in the context of differences through format.

John my last observation was with the FA*85 only on both formats at the same focus distance of 10m so the lens was acting the same for both cameras so only the senor/film size makes a difference.

If you mean that the APS-C needs to be magnified more then the 35mm to cover a standard 6"x7" photo then you're correct and that's what the circle of confusion is about... at least for the most part.
Since the 35mm isn't magnified that much you have more leeway before something appears not sharp.

At least that's my understanding of it.

When you do this, the lens has a field of view similar to a 127.5mm lens on the 35mm camera, so you are not comparing like with like. We would expect a 127.5mm lens to have less DOF, but of course the relevance here is not actually the focal length but the magnification.

The circle of confusion is a useful design objective, but as we can define what we want it to be, so it isn't a constant value. It's a convention. When using a DOF scale or table I might take the DOF at f8, focus accordingly, but I would set the stop at f11. This is so the quality level is more critical and bigger prints can be satisfactorily made.

Some manufacturers are more accurate than others when defining their DOF scales and tables, and some more generous with their expectations, it depends how you look at it.

Don't foget that in an ultimate sense there is no DOF. The only sharp point in an image is the plane you are focused on.

I think it's not fair play to throw in all these technical explanations - the OP didn't ask for it. He just wants an opinion on the K200D vs the K20D, in which case the crop factor and DOF will be exactly the same.

At least, if trying to present an explanation, keep it simple and forget the scientific accuracy - which in most cases is lost anyway.

IMHO the K200D is a great camera. If you are on a strict budget, go for it. If money is not an issue and you must have the best, the K20D is the answer.

By the way, the K200D is still advertised from the Norwegian Pentax representative.

That wasn't the point Terry, the point was to make sure that an inaccuracy wasn't propogated, which would potentially add to confusion. If misunderstandings are left then it's of poor service to those who want to understand.

Unfortunately, considerations of DOF and format are quite tricky to explain and to understand, which is why we have revisited it several times over the past couple of years.