K-7 Noise, noise, noise...

I upgraded to the K7 a year ago from the *istDS.
I'm very amateur and casual, rarely have decent photo opportunities (remote area) but I like nice equipment when I do. The K7 is a beautifully designed and made camera, nice to hold and operate.
I'm (still) perfectly happy with the *istDS - I get the results I want and don't get many disappointments but I've struggled with the K7 since buying it.
I do love the camera, the ergonomics, even the learning curve (though I'm still travelling that)..
I'm not about to sell the body and lose money just to UG again to the K5 to get the supposed better low noise @ high ISO results.
I want very low noise at the lowest ISO thanks...
The *istDS is virtually noise free at 200 ISO (yes I know it's only 6mp) yet I just cannot get good 'noiseless' photos out of the K7.
Even at the lowest ISO in the brightest sun I still see noise at 1:1 in clear blue sky and shadows... No pp necessary!
I feel let down by PENTAX's choice of sensor and at a loss what to do. It's no longer the first camera I pick up, such a waste.

I've read many threads on various forums and tried many different approaches including many variations of the camera setup, but it seems the noise is just there whatever I do.

Can current owners list their magic formulas for (mostly) noiseless results in common conditions with the K7?

Remember, casual hobbiest - be kind

PS: Hopefully we'll have some clear skies tomorrow when I'll shoot & post some fresh examples.

Have you updated the firmware since buying the K7? I'm sure I read something about improvement to noise levels in one of the upgrades.

As your a newbie; Firmware is the software in your camera, think of it like Windows running your PC, manufacturers often update this software and release a small file which is downloaded from their website and instaled in the camera, it is very easy to do.

To check the firmware instaled you hold down the Menu button while turning on the camera, the LCD display will show the version your camera has.

K7 firmware laste release was V 1.10
istDS was V 2.02

Check them both, if they need updating we can talk you through it.

Well I shoot Raw (always have, this is not something special to the k-7). In lightroom all my presets have a small amount of noise reduction which effectively banishes it at low ISOs and reduces it greatly at high ISOs.

Remember when you are looking at a 1:1 crop you are looking at a far smaller portion of the overall image than with the DS. And a much tinier part of any print you are likely to make.

Thanks for the replies, actually I consider my status simply as 'Casual / amateur' photographer rather than very active enthusiast, but certainly not a newbie The *istDS was purchased in 2004 and been in regular use (I won't go OT recounting earlier gear )
Yes, I keep my cameras firmware up to date.

Aside from sharpness, which is more a lens issue - I get great results from the *istDS.
Same conditions with the K7 is a lot harder work.. Right, higher end cam needs more understanding I get it, but I also get more noise that I like..

I also like to play with PhotoMatix on some shots, here again the *istDS shots are fantastic when run through the tone mapping, but with the K7 images, PM just shows up coloured confetti in the shadows...

Just frustrating 'tis all.

@Pentaxophile: Yes I shoot RAW much of the time though LR 2.6 doesn't do a great job with noise removal imho, I prefer Topaz DeNoise.

PM is now on v4 and I don't see *any* problems with noise, even on high ISO shots with a k10d.
I'll re-check this tomorrow with a set taken at 800ISO.

Is "noise reduction" on in Photomatix?

this is a quick example of noise available at ISO200 on a K10D - remember that the blue channel is the noisiest...(f11, 1/800)




Bret

I would use Topaz on very high iso files maybe, but to mop up the small amount of noise you get at low iso, it would be using a sledgehammer to crack a nut imo.

Can we see some image samples at 1:1?

This is my seagull at 1:1...




This "grain" looks obvious as a background picture, but I've seen these printed at A3 and they look great.

Bret

As long as it was Pentax why not

I think you need to post some crops at 100% so we can see the problem, I still have my istD and the noise levels at 200/400 are acceptable but I couldn't claim they were better than later model cameras K10/20D. Having said that I have no direct experience with the DS so perhaps Pentax produced a little gem with regards to its noise handling: we need some more DS&K7 owners to add their comments.

Something else that needs some consideration is that this comparison isn't 'apples with apples'.

The *istDS sensor has a pixel density of 1.7 Mp per square centimetre. The K7 has 4.0 (as does the K20) - that's a bit over double the density. That checks out with resolution too, given 14.x Mp in the K7 is a bit over double that of the *istDS.

Given they are all APS-C sized sensors, this is the way more resolution is squeezed onto a sensor that has to retain at least two of its physical dimensions (W x H).

While that isn't the whole story, it has a bearing on it.

Here's one I took testing a Tamron Adaptall zoom lens, at ISO 320 (as close to base ISO as I could find):




That doesn't look too noisy to me. At 1:1 (link) there is indeed a gritty texture to smooth tonal areas, but I think that you'd have to print it out at 'actual size' (3.1 x 4.6m at 72dpi) to see this so I don't worry.

I have noticed that shadow noise becomes a problem when you lighten shadows considerably, as in the shot below (the foreground was very dark indeed originally, with the church tower and sky exposed correctly). But certainly not worse than with my K200D. I used to have an istDL2 so I can have a play and compare with some of my old PEF files at some point. But looking at some old istDL2 shots recently, I was struck by how little detail there was compared to the K-7... there's almost a painterly look to fine details like pine needles link




Bottom line, the K-7 does not compare well with the K-5 in terms of noise or dynamic range. The sensor is from the last generation. But it's on a par with the K20D in terms of IQ, which was an acclaimed camera just a couple of years ago. It's closer to the K-5 in terms of performance and comes in the same great durable body.

I quite like it (can you tell?) but I would probably have passed on it if I had owned a K20D...