K-5 - Exposure Bracketing and Mirror-Up options
88 posts
Link
Posted 22/12/2012 - 11:54
Why not set your FX button to exposure bracket and then use remote setting with mirror up under the drive options. 
http://www.flickr.com/photos/exevalley/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/exevalley/
5,986 posts
Link
Posted 22/12/2012 - 12:10
I've just tried this out on the K7 (I think the cameras are the same in these respects - I don't think it is possible to shoot brackets with the mirror up throughout - it appears to drop back for each exposure.
Using the method exevalley described above gives manual control (first push on remote - mirror up, second push takes the shot but the mirror drops back, then its repeated again - no shutter speed changes were seen, so no bracketing was occurring (my user mode has Av set).One-push bracketing does not work in this situation, I had to keep pressing the button each time to raise the mirror and then take the shot.
Am I right to surmise that you cannot take automatic brackets with mirror up? I think this might only be possible on a CSC type camera.
My Guides to the Pentax Digital Camera Flash Lighting System : Download here from the PentaxForums Homepage Article .... link
Pentax K7 with BG-4 Grip / Samyang 14mm f2.8 ED AS IF UMC / DA18-55mm f3.5-5.6 AL WR / SMC A28mm f2.8 / D FA 28-105mm / SMC F35-70 f3.5-4.5 / SMC A50mm f1.7 / Tamron AF70-300mm f4-5.6 Di LD macro / SMC M75-150mm f4.0 / Tamron Adaptall (CT-135) 135mm f2.8 / Asahi Takumar-A 2X tele-converter / Pentax AF-540FGZ (I & II) Flashes / Cactus RF60/X Flashes & V6/V6II Transceiver
Using the method exevalley described above gives manual control (first push on remote - mirror up, second push takes the shot but the mirror drops back, then its repeated again - no shutter speed changes were seen, so no bracketing was occurring (my user mode has Av set).One-push bracketing does not work in this situation, I had to keep pressing the button each time to raise the mirror and then take the shot.
Am I right to surmise that you cannot take automatic brackets with mirror up? I think this might only be possible on a CSC type camera.
My Guides to the Pentax Digital Camera Flash Lighting System : Download here from the PentaxForums Homepage Article .... link
Pentax K7 with BG-4 Grip / Samyang 14mm f2.8 ED AS IF UMC / DA18-55mm f3.5-5.6 AL WR / SMC A28mm f2.8 / D FA 28-105mm / SMC F35-70 f3.5-4.5 / SMC A50mm f1.7 / Tamron AF70-300mm f4-5.6 Di LD macro / SMC M75-150mm f4.0 / Tamron Adaptall (CT-135) 135mm f2.8 / Asahi Takumar-A 2X tele-converter / Pentax AF-540FGZ (I & II) Flashes / Cactus RF60/X Flashes & V6/V6II Transceiver
Link
Posted 22/12/2012 - 18:11
Don't know if this helps, but if you set a 2 sec self timer, the mirror goes up (and SR is off) at the start of the 2 secs - since it assumes you will be using a tripod. Clearly you can have self timer or bracketing, not both. Personally however I shoot RAW and for the type of landscapes I shoot, with Adobe Camera Raw PV2012 in LR4, the K5 has so much detail in shadow areas that I can get away without an ND grad (or apply one afterwards in Lightroom, or us a brush) and just get the look I want using ACR. On a single exposure. Expose to the right, but just make sure you've not burnt out the highlights. Unless it's the sun in the frame. But that's just me. YMMV.
Paul
K3ii, DA16-85, DA35mm Limited, FA77mm Limited, 55mm f1.8 K, 135mm f3.5 M, DA300, DA 1.4 HD TC,
DA16-45, Sigma 15mm f2.8. Cosina 100mm f3.5 macro
Paul
K3ii, DA16-85, DA35mm Limited, FA77mm Limited, 55mm f1.8 K, 135mm f3.5 M, DA300, DA 1.4 HD TC,
DA16-45, Sigma 15mm f2.8. Cosina 100mm f3.5 macro
Link
Posted 22/12/2012 - 18:34
The mirror shake will hardly have any effect most likely on the end result, i wouldnt worry about it.
Stefan
K10D, K5
DA* 16-50, DA* 50-135, D-FA 100 Macro, DA 40 Ltd, DA 18-55
AF-540FGZ
Stefan
K10D, K5
DA* 16-50, DA* 50-135, D-FA 100 Macro, DA 40 Ltd, DA 18-55
AF-540FGZ
Link
Posted 22/12/2012 - 20:04
Many thanks all for your advice.
Like McGregNi, I also tried out exevalley's suggestion. Activating the RAW/FX button turns on exposure bracketing but if you then select Mirror Up as a Drive Mode, this then takes precedence and is applied instead of the exposure bracketing. So it does seem that you cannot take automatic brackets with the mirror up.
Paul - I completely agree with your comments on Lightroom's capabilities.
The reason I was 'experimenting' was because I was trying to follow the blending technique advocated by Guy Edwardes in a Practical Photography magazine published a few months ago.
Nigel
Best regards
Nigel
www.nigelstridephotography.co.uk
Like McGregNi, I also tried out exevalley's suggestion. Activating the RAW/FX button turns on exposure bracketing but if you then select Mirror Up as a Drive Mode, this then takes precedence and is applied instead of the exposure bracketing. So it does seem that you cannot take automatic brackets with the mirror up.
Paul - I completely agree with your comments on Lightroom's capabilities.
The reason I was 'experimenting' was because I was trying to follow the blending technique advocated by Guy Edwardes in a Practical Photography magazine published a few months ago.
Nigel
Best regards
Nigel
www.nigelstridephotography.co.uk
Link
Posted 23/12/2012 - 07:50
Its true that with RAW and good PP we can drag an awful lot of depth and contrast out of a single shot. But the fact remains that if any scene contains both extreme bright & dark areas that go beyond the sensors dynamic range, and we believe it important to capture detail in both those extremes, then we have little choice but to shoot brackets.
This could be for 'layer blending' (I guess we mean by this revealing different parts of the scene with different exposures through PS layers), or for HDR processing. If any single shot failed to record detail at either extreme (ie the histogram data was shooting up either edge) then we can't reclaim that detail - we can only alter contrast at the extremes which will change the feeling of 'depth' in the image.
The mirror up feature may only have any noticable effect at certain shutter speeds, I think I've read some evidence somewhere that its most significant around 1/8th to 1/30th second, not significant much outside of that range ?? As it seems we can't use mirror up anyway with brackets, if handholding perhaps we should just rely on the SR.
My Guides to the Pentax Digital Camera Flash Lighting System : Download here from the PentaxForums Homepage Article .... link
Pentax K7 with BG-4 Grip / Samyang 14mm f2.8 ED AS IF UMC / DA18-55mm f3.5-5.6 AL WR / SMC A28mm f2.8 / D FA 28-105mm / SMC F35-70 f3.5-4.5 / SMC A50mm f1.7 / Tamron AF70-300mm f4-5.6 Di LD macro / SMC M75-150mm f4.0 / Tamron Adaptall (CT-135) 135mm f2.8 / Asahi Takumar-A 2X tele-converter / Pentax AF-540FGZ (I & II) Flashes / Cactus RF60/X Flashes & V6/V6II Transceiver
This could be for 'layer blending' (I guess we mean by this revealing different parts of the scene with different exposures through PS layers), or for HDR processing. If any single shot failed to record detail at either extreme (ie the histogram data was shooting up either edge) then we can't reclaim that detail - we can only alter contrast at the extremes which will change the feeling of 'depth' in the image.
The mirror up feature may only have any noticable effect at certain shutter speeds, I think I've read some evidence somewhere that its most significant around 1/8th to 1/30th second, not significant much outside of that range ?? As it seems we can't use mirror up anyway with brackets, if handholding perhaps we should just rely on the SR.
My Guides to the Pentax Digital Camera Flash Lighting System : Download here from the PentaxForums Homepage Article .... link
Pentax K7 with BG-4 Grip / Samyang 14mm f2.8 ED AS IF UMC / DA18-55mm f3.5-5.6 AL WR / SMC A28mm f2.8 / D FA 28-105mm / SMC F35-70 f3.5-4.5 / SMC A50mm f1.7 / Tamron AF70-300mm f4-5.6 Di LD macro / SMC M75-150mm f4.0 / Tamron Adaptall (CT-135) 135mm f2.8 / Asahi Takumar-A 2X tele-converter / Pentax AF-540FGZ (I & II) Flashes / Cactus RF60/X Flashes & V6/V6II Transceiver
Last Edited by McGregNi on 23/12/2012 - 07:52
Link
Posted 23/12/2012 - 09:02
Actually this thread has got me thinking. I've never bothered much with HDR or layer blending because I don't like the "look" - I'm trying to get something as close as I can to how I remember the scene, as natural a look as I can manage. For me the use of LR4 / ACR / RAW gets me closest (personal taste) but still sometimes I'm not happy. So at the risk of a slight hijack, anyone aware of any good tutorials / articles on use of ACR for high contrast landscape images?
Cheers
Paul
K3ii, DA16-85, DA35mm Limited, FA77mm Limited, 55mm f1.8 K, 135mm f3.5 M, DA300, DA 1.4 HD TC,
DA16-45, Sigma 15mm f2.8. Cosina 100mm f3.5 macro
Cheers
Paul
K3ii, DA16-85, DA35mm Limited, FA77mm Limited, 55mm f1.8 K, 135mm f3.5 M, DA300, DA 1.4 HD TC,
DA16-45, Sigma 15mm f2.8. Cosina 100mm f3.5 macro
Link
Posted 23/12/2012 - 09:19
Well ACR can certainly control contrast, both across the whole range equally (contrast slider) and at the top end (recovery slider) and low end (black point). This will benefit images where the entire DR was captured in a single shot (ie the histogram data is all contained within the graph, not heading up the outer edges), but if you start off with clipped shadows or blown highlights then trying to limit these will just result in muddy looking greys or a paint-like appearance in the bright areas (I have found) 
I know the 'HDR look' is often overdone and not appealing, but I have found Photomatix Pro to be very effective at creating a realistic looking image that contains a wider visible DR than could have been captured in any single shot.
My Guides to the Pentax Digital Camera Flash Lighting System : Download here from the PentaxForums Homepage Article .... link
Pentax K7 with BG-4 Grip / Samyang 14mm f2.8 ED AS IF UMC / DA18-55mm f3.5-5.6 AL WR / SMC A28mm f2.8 / D FA 28-105mm / SMC F35-70 f3.5-4.5 / SMC A50mm f1.7 / Tamron AF70-300mm f4-5.6 Di LD macro / SMC M75-150mm f4.0 / Tamron Adaptall (CT-135) 135mm f2.8 / Asahi Takumar-A 2X tele-converter / Pentax AF-540FGZ (I & II) Flashes / Cactus RF60/X Flashes & V6/V6II Transceiver
I know the 'HDR look' is often overdone and not appealing, but I have found Photomatix Pro to be very effective at creating a realistic looking image that contains a wider visible DR than could have been captured in any single shot.
My Guides to the Pentax Digital Camera Flash Lighting System : Download here from the PentaxForums Homepage Article .... link
Pentax K7 with BG-4 Grip / Samyang 14mm f2.8 ED AS IF UMC / DA18-55mm f3.5-5.6 AL WR / SMC A28mm f2.8 / D FA 28-105mm / SMC F35-70 f3.5-4.5 / SMC A50mm f1.7 / Tamron AF70-300mm f4-5.6 Di LD macro / SMC M75-150mm f4.0 / Tamron Adaptall (CT-135) 135mm f2.8 / Asahi Takumar-A 2X tele-converter / Pentax AF-540FGZ (I & II) Flashes / Cactus RF60/X Flashes & V6/V6II Transceiver
Link
Posted 23/12/2012 - 09:26
I remember a while back I posted a couple of shots to show what I was meaning when talking about this 'HDR for increased DR' thing, so heres a link to the post and the images :
link
You should be able to see clear detail in all areas - I think its true that the processing has boosted saturation a bit to much, but this is easily adjusted. I have a huge print of the house shot (from foto.com) that is really spectacular, so the technique worked well for this instance.
My Guides to the Pentax Digital Camera Flash Lighting System : Download here from the PentaxForums Homepage Article .... link
Pentax K7 with BG-4 Grip / Samyang 14mm f2.8 ED AS IF UMC / DA18-55mm f3.5-5.6 AL WR / SMC A28mm f2.8 / D FA 28-105mm / SMC F35-70 f3.5-4.5 / SMC A50mm f1.7 / Tamron AF70-300mm f4-5.6 Di LD macro / SMC M75-150mm f4.0 / Tamron Adaptall (CT-135) 135mm f2.8 / Asahi Takumar-A 2X tele-converter / Pentax AF-540FGZ (I & II) Flashes / Cactus RF60/X Flashes & V6/V6II Transceiver
link
You should be able to see clear detail in all areas - I think its true that the processing has boosted saturation a bit to much, but this is easily adjusted. I have a huge print of the house shot (from foto.com) that is really spectacular, so the technique worked well for this instance.
My Guides to the Pentax Digital Camera Flash Lighting System : Download here from the PentaxForums Homepage Article .... link
Pentax K7 with BG-4 Grip / Samyang 14mm f2.8 ED AS IF UMC / DA18-55mm f3.5-5.6 AL WR / SMC A28mm f2.8 / D FA 28-105mm / SMC F35-70 f3.5-4.5 / SMC A50mm f1.7 / Tamron AF70-300mm f4-5.6 Di LD macro / SMC M75-150mm f4.0 / Tamron Adaptall (CT-135) 135mm f2.8 / Asahi Takumar-A 2X tele-converter / Pentax AF-540FGZ (I & II) Flashes / Cactus RF60/X Flashes & V6/V6II Transceiver
Last Edited by McGregNi on 23/12/2012 - 09:26
Link
Posted 23/12/2012 - 10:48
I prefer the 'blended layers' approach myself. I don't like a blown out sky, but I don't like images to look over-edited. So I just bring back a bit of detail to the clouds without overdoing it.
[link=https://500px.com/will_brealey/[/link]
[link=https://500px.com/will_brealey/[/link]
Last Edited by Pentaxophile on 23/12/2012 - 10:49
Link
Posted 21/01/2013 - 17:41
Stridey, one other complication to take into account is how the camara achieves the bracketing. Is it by varying aperture (yuk), exposure time (generally preferred) or ISO?
If you want to ensure bracketing is perfomed by varying the the exposure time then you should use Av mode. It is also possible in P mode in some circumstances but not all, so P mode is probably best avoided.
In most other modes the K-5 usually brackets by a combination of exposure time and aperture. Varying the aperture is horrible as it obviously varies the depth of field, making a mess of attempts to merge for HDR.
I'm generally an advocate of keeping things simple and I think that the 14-bit sensor in the K-5 gives you a good dynamic range from a single shot for HDR processing, provided the light is good. However, I can see the argument for taking multiple exposures in order to reduce noise in the shadow areas. The 14th bit of the base shot is going to be noiser than the 8th bit of a shot extended by 6 stops.
If you want to ensure bracketing is perfomed by varying the the exposure time then you should use Av mode. It is also possible in P mode in some circumstances but not all, so P mode is probably best avoided.
In most other modes the K-5 usually brackets by a combination of exposure time and aperture. Varying the aperture is horrible as it obviously varies the depth of field, making a mess of attempts to merge for HDR.
I'm generally an advocate of keeping things simple and I think that the 14-bit sensor in the K-5 gives you a good dynamic range from a single shot for HDR processing, provided the light is good. However, I can see the argument for taking multiple exposures in order to reduce noise in the shadow areas. The 14th bit of the base shot is going to be noiser than the 8th bit of a shot extended by 6 stops.
Last Edited by WaypointCharlie on 21/01/2013 - 17:49
Add a Comment
You must be registered or logged-in to comment.
Stridey
Member
Dorset
A question for the avid K-5 landscape photographers on here !
Shooting RAW, I have been using the Exposure Bracketing function on the K-5 (with cable release & tripod) so that I can experiment with exposure blending via layers in Photoshop (as yet I don't have any ND Grads, hence this approach).
Drive Mode is set to 'Exposure Bracketing + Remote Control'.
This mode automatically turns off Shake Reduction (as recommended for tripod use) but I have been unable to find out if it is also possible to lock up the mirror with this Drive Mode. It seems to me that you can either have 'Exposure Bracketing + Remote Control' set, or 'Mirror Up' mode, not both.
Can anyone advise if there is a way round this or can confirm my assumption ?
Many thanks
Nigel
Best regards
Nigel
www.nigelstridephotography.co.uk