It's become difficult for PC builders!

Ok, i'll admit from the start, this is a bit of a rant and i'm blatantly using this thread as a bit of a cathartic endeavour.

But...

I came home from work to find my PC won't 'post'. By that I mean you switch it on and you get the beep which essentially is the motherboard saying i'm happy, and the PC continues to load. That did'nt happen for me. Power is there, it comes on, my drives work (so it's not my power supply unit). I spent about 20 mins taking things out, swapping memory, and came to the conclusion it's my motherboard that has given up the ghost.

I phoned Maplin to see if they had any Intel socket 775 boards available, and was told they only sell bundle deals now (motherboard and cpu). I was told this was because as a chain they were getting too many returns - public buying the motherboard or CPU seperately then realising they were incompatible and sending them back to the shop.

Ok I thought, i'll call PC world...

It's a national help line - you cant call a store direct, but the line can check stock for you and reserve items at your local branch. Unfortunately the bloke I spoke to had'nt a clue what a Intel Socket 775 motherboard was, and said he'd take my number and ask the store to call me back so I could speak to a techie.

They never called back so i thought i'd drive into Chester and see what they have....and they had...nothing but bundles!

The guy that greeted me on the way in was amusing, when he asked me whether I knew what i wanted from the store, I replied with the motherboard details, and then he gave me a blank expression and said "what computer do you have?" I explained I am a system builder and there is no 'computer brand' I can tell you, it's a custom intel-based PC. He then pointed me in the direction of the in-store technician...I then explained again what I was after and he first reached for an AMD bundle package....at which point I knew it was'nt going to work out.

In the end I ordered the motherboard I wanted from Ebuyer next day delivery, and i'm currently using my work laptop connected to my LCDTV and sound system (as my Pc usually is). So i'll be ok till tommorow, and i've already recieved an email to say it's been dispatched.

I just can't help but feel frustrated. Maybe I'm expecting too much from the High St, but it was'nt that long ago when this would'nt have been a problem.

I now realise that my only bastion of hope lies with e-commerce!

I've always found Insight to be quite good. Dabs are verging on the dishonest - if anything goes wrong they try to fob you off with total disregard for your statutory rights.

Hope you get it sorted.

G

Thanks George.

It'll be fine tomorrow when it arrives i'm sure.

I've gone with the same manufacturer, Asus, so as far as my installation of Windows 7 goes it should be happy with it and not bluescreen when I try to launch Windows.

I have'nt used Dabs for a very long time I must say - I've relied soley on Ebuyer for about 6 years now, and never been dissapointed. Yes, in that time i've had to send a few items back, but it's always been handled very proffesionally. I'd recommend them.

Same here, but for the last 8 years.

Dan

Misco seem pretty good also.

I had a similar problem once and went to my small local PC components supplier, who cached the BIOS on a stock mother board of the same make/model and did a BIOS chip hot swap, re-flashed my BIOS. Worked a treat.

edit = early morning typo

Well i'm very happy!

Motherboard turned up at 8 this morning, and half an hour later i'm back as normal - it definitely was my motherboard that had died!

Which i'm very relieved with - plus I dont have to stay in all day now waiting for it to arrive

Ebuyer are excellent IMHO.

I also use Novatech, as their Reading shop is only about four miles away. Their prices are not usually *quite* as good as Ebuyer, but their customer service and knowledge is very good indeed (apart from the grumpy tech support guy based in Portsmouth!). They also run a forum, which can be very useful indeed if you are an 'interested amateur system builder' like I am.

I had a similar problem with one of our computers recently - no POST. It turned out to be a power supply problem that also took the motherboard with it. The guys at Novatech Reading were so helpful with this (testing the individual components in their back room, then dealing with the warranty from the manufacturers - the parts were over one year old, but covered by three year manufacturers warranties), that I definitely owe them my next purchases!

Isn't somewhere like this where the hardcore kiddies play?

http://www.scan.co.uk/

Yes I have heard of scan and had a look at them before - never bought from them though.

Glad it turned out to be the motherboard and that your PC is now up and working.

FYI and in case it is of use in the future, just because the drives spin up, doesn't mean that the power suppy is okay.

A PC power supply has several different outputs, with different connectors, as I am sure you are aware since you built your PC!
However, there are different voltages on the outputs for the motherboard, CPU, drives etc. and it is perfectly possible for just one of these to fail. If the CPU output fails, for example, the drives will spin up and the motherboard POST will report that there is no CPU installed, which might make you think your CPU has failed, when it is in fact the power supply.

Also, an output may not fail entirely, just be a bit below the volatage required for stable operation. When fault finding on my current self-built PC, I ended up making probes from sewing pins, attaching them to the larger probes of a multi-meter, and testing the voltages on each of the pins of the motherboard connector whilst installed and under load, in order to determine a power supply fault.

A cheap PSU, like those that come packaged with desktop cases, is probably going to be unreliably or short lived. Paying a bit more is definitely worth it.


I've built a couple of PCs with parts from www.scan.co.uk and www.microdirect.co.uk - both have offered excellent delivery service, but be aware that you will usually have to take up warranty issues for OEM parts directly with the manufacturer.

I have to agree that getting parts for fixing a home-build is a real pain - CPUs move on so quickly, the chances of getting a new motherboard which supports your old CPU, RAM, graphics card etc. can be pretty slim after even just one year.


Anyway, glad your diagnosis turned out to be correct and that you got hold of a motherboard.

Derek.

That's very useful information Derek which I was'nt aware of - many thanks for sharing!

I had recently purchased a 600W PSU - I too would never really rely on your 'standard with the case 350 or 400W PSU' so I did'nt think it would have failed in the short time I had it (though you never know with PC components and it's wrong to assume just because it's newer it wont fail on you).

But also asuming just because power is going to the drives that the PSU is therefore ok, is an assumption I will no longer make - and a CPU fail as reported from the Motherboard could indeed be a PSU problem.....that's really worth making a mental note of.

In retrospect it seems I got off lightly in only requiring a new motherboard.

It's funny, as I was considering only the other day to get a micro atx board as I really like the look of some of the media centre cases you can buy - very stylish (and better looking for my lounge). Though it does'nt look too bad at the moment - I've got a horizonal case pushed snuggly into the space where a wooden drawer in my TV cabinet used to live; and it fits perfectly - it comes out a few inches at the back partly revealing the CPU and heatsink, so never gets too hot. My case just looks dull though...but at least it's not obstructive and in the way.

You are spot on with how technology advances and if you unwittingly buy into components which are about to be replaced by a newer generation, it means that upgrage or replacement is more painful when it happens. But having said that, considering the price of PC components these days - especially memory and storage, there has been no better time to upgrade.

I'm just frustrated that PC World and Maplin seemed to have lost trust in the public to know what they need before they buy.

I used to build my own PCs but nowadays unless you want a specific system its a bit pointless as pre builts are often cheaper than components.

In my experience suppliers have ALWAYS wanted to bundle a Board and CPU together, I suppose because people will usually upgrade when either gives up the ghost.

What makes me laugh is the way Boards are marketed as upgradeable but they generally come bundled with the fastest CPU available which in effect is only making them downgradeable

Yep, you are quite right, in the last couple of years, off-the-shelf PCs of reasonable performance are much cheaper.

When I built mine about three years ago, it was probably about half the cost of a ready-made.
I built mine to use with Sonar for music recording and particularly wanted to achieve low latency when recording guitar.

Thing is, apart from the obvious cost benefits due to the quantities, ready-mades are cheaper because they always compromise on something - it just depends on whether that is important to you. Ready-mades usually come with pretty average spec RAM and not the fastest of hard disk drives, both of which can have quite an effect on the performance if processing large image files.

Also, for the digital photographer, the graphics card is crucial - Ready-mades often come packaged with "high performance" graphics cards, because that's what the mass-market gamer wants. Whilst these graphics cards might be superb for speedy 3D game graphics, they usually lack one important feature - dual hardware path for the second screen output. I've used numerous ready-made PCs with two screens over the years and all of them display different colours on each screen - and yes, I do know what I'm doing with monitor adjustments and profiling and all that. If you've ever noticed this, just try swapping which screen is on which output - if the screen on output A previously showed a higher red tint, then it will still do so, and this is because the graphics card does not have identical harware for both outputs. If you are particular about colour because of your photography, what you really want is something like a Matrox graphics card, rock solid superb outputs to both screens, but rubbish for games - just try buying a ready-made with a Matrox!



I think I would still build my own, even now. In fact, maybe an upgrade is due, what with Windows 7 on the way...


Derek.

Well, it's all about building a specific system isn't it?

With a prebuilt computer you have no idea about the quality of the components. Often these will be whatever the manufacturer could source cheapest on the day. Will it be a real ASUS motherboard or some clone? Will they use a TI chip firewire or some other? Is the power supply sufficient or just barely enough? Unless you build it yourself, good luck checking out all this.

I want my next system to be dead quiet, with HD enclosures etc. To do this myself is significantly cheaper than buying from dealers who specialise in such computers.

If it's one thing you do get when you buy a Dell or similar, it's good ducting and a reasonably quiet PC.

Robin, I'd be interested to know how you get on building a 'dead quiet' system.

Sometimes I like to work to music and sometimes I like silence, but the latter seems a bit out of the question, with the PC on the desktop two feet from my head! Liquid cooling was only just out when I built my PC and was ridiculously expensive.

Just had a look at your website Photografica and the images on flickr - particularly like 'red leg / white leg' and 'Z in light'. That's my kind of photography - finding beautiful shapes and colour in everyday, unremarkable places.

Derek.