I need ND Filter Help Please

".........I have my tripod but how do I take these seperate readings without moving the the camera ..."

Take a reading from both key areas then use manual 'mode' to make both exposures.

http://www.popphoto.com/howto/3038/how-to-create-high-dynamic-range-images.html

this might be interesting to look at...

Terrible HDR image as the first image... There's plenty of information on good HDR on the ePhotozine forums

Exposing correctly for HDR can be a right pain - and you can't easily do it with the camera on the tripod (that's where a quick release plate helps!). However, the K10D can do 5 frames at 2Ev intervals which is very helpful.

The feature is located on the "Drive mode" button (top left on the back). Use the thumb and finger wheels to move to bracket mode and then choose the number and interval (with the front and back dials) when you're in that mode.

Blending the exposures can be tricky, and the current software won't always get it right. Artizen is one of the most full featured packages, and reasonably priced (unlike Photomatix you can choose from a variety of tone mapping operators).

It's still often a lot easier just to use a straight ND grad - and the evaluative metering generally gets it right. A set of Cokin P ND grads are reasonably priced in a pack from Speed Graphic ( www.speedgraphic.co.uk ), e.g. http://www.speedgraphic.co.uk/prod.asp?i=3376&1=Cokin+P+ND+Graduated+Kit
(They also do a Cokin Z-Pro kit that fits the Lee Foundation system )

HDR is another (long winded) thread entirely....

Matt

Matt, on my K10D that button only controls bracketing. Is there a custom function somewhere which allows control of the other drive modes that way? that would be soooo useful.

[quote="viewfinder
Bit lost on how to take two readings from both areas without moving the camera especially spot metering ??

I need the to keep the frame in exactly the same position.

I´m off out now 6pm to a place in the desert just hope I can get the job done. I will try several exposures and hope for the best back in PS or any suitable merging software. Sorry cant hang around for more replys its an hours drive.

Pete

take the readings before you frame the shot, as I suggested.

When I'm taking a shot I rove around the important areas with the spot meter in M mode, watching the exposure readout.

I managed to get some good shots in the desert using 3 to 4 different exposures of the same shot in RAW with a tripod and without moving the frame.

With regards to taking two seperate reading as mentioned in your reply above I still don´t know mongoose how this works ? how to take a spot reading from two different areas ie sky first and then mid tone land or foreground object before shooting the the one identical frame. How this acheived ? I think I might be missing the plot ?? but surely you spot meter from the sky first the take the shot then spot meter from the land/object and take a second shot but this wont give you the exact frame position.

As I said I think I am missing something here perhaps you would care to explain. It is late so my brain isn´t working in top gear

Cheers Guys

Pete

But not at all difficult to get the same effect as an ND Grad, which will just have a feathered straight edge between the 'sky' and 'land'.

Dan

true, I'd never thought of it that way!

Pete, let me try and explain again since it obviously wasn't clear to you last time (probably my fault).

here is what I would do (note I don't pretend this is the best way, but it seems to work for me)

you've got a subject, lets say a barn in a field with a bright sky.

select M mode and Spot metering.

Point the camera at the brightest thing you want detail in (probably the sky or some portion of it) and set aperture/shutter speed so the meter reads "correct" exposure.

Point the camera at the darkest thing, probably the barn. Note the difference in light meter reading. Change your aperture/shutter speed to halve the indicated error. This is now halfway in between your brightest and darkest regions and may even give you enough info to do as Manesty suggested. If it looks like the difference is too great for that and you need to use bracketing, continue.

Activate auto bracketing. This brings up little dots on the meter scale showing where the extra exposures will be. Adjust the bracketing so you get one shot near the highlight indicated exposure and one near the lowlight indicated exposure. You will also get one in the middle of course.

Now frame the shot and shoot. This is probably not the best way to meter, someone like JohnRiley or Matt can probably tell you a better way to do it since they understand the black art that is light metering much better than I, but do you see at least what I mean about metering first before you frame the shot?

I hope this helps

Mongoose,
There appear to be two trains of thought going on here...

1. Use an ND Graduated filter. Metering - use evaluative unless you're feeling adventurous

2. Use HDR and combine multiple shots. This is what I was suggesting with the Drive button - you can select 3 or 5 shots that are 2Ev apart. Use a tripod, and preferably use RAW. I've successfully done HDR by:

a. Processing each RAW file with no exposure adjustments in Silkypix, output to 16-bit TIFF
b. Use Artizen to combine the 5 TIFF files into a 32-bit HDR file
c. Then I used Photoshop CS2 to tone map back down to 16-bit RGB

(Artizen copes with image variations much, much better than CS2. And I didn't tone map in Artizen because I haven't bought the license... yet )

There's a third way too which is fine for a lot of images:
3. Take a single shot in RAW - expose to try and reduce blown out highlights (but you don't want too much shadow either). The K10D copes with this very, very well.
a. Then, process twice in the RAW convertor - once for the highlights, second for the shadows.
b. Bring both images into Photoshop, and arrange as two layers.
c. Add a "hide all" layer mask on the top layer
d. Pick the gradient tool, with "Foreground to transparent" as the gradient, choose white and select 25% opacity
e. Now brush in the "grad" on the layer mask and the two layers will be combined


HTH,
Matt

I can't speak for the digital solutions but I've certainly used grads quite a bit and would have thought that spot metering would have been the best bet - you need to work out what strength grad you need for a starters.

The simplest way of doing things is with a handheld spot meter but the in camera spot meter works perfectly well, in fact I used to use my MZ5n spot meter to get the exposure right when using my old fully manual Mamiya 645.

I'll take a spot reading from a couple of areas in the sky - clouds if that's where I want detail or near the sun if I want to stop that burning out for sunsets - DO NOT METER FROM THE SUN. Make a mental (or written) note of the exposures and average them out.

Next do the same thing for the foreground or subject - again I take a few readings from the important areas and average them out in my head.

Whatever the difference in stops is between the sky and the foreground reading is determines the strength of ND grad you want, 1 stop, 2 stop etc... For example let's say that the correct exposure for the sky is 1/250th @ f/11 and the foreground reading is 1/60th @ f/11 a difference of 2 stops. You'd select a 2 Stop grad to balance the sky & foreground exposures - that's an ND4 for Cokin or ND 0.6 for Lee Filters.

Compose your scene, slot in the ND grad and use the foreground meter reading (this is getting full light from the clear portion of the grad while the sky portion is held back by 2 stops balancing the exposure) in manual mode on the camera - I also tend to bracket a little using slide film but on digital in RAW it's generally fine...

Will

Thanks Mongoose


Pete

Will,
Well I must be just plain lazy

I usually guess which ND to use, slot it in, and shoot. Then check the LCD and histogram (very useful with the K10D and the flashing highlights) - if it's wrong I adjust the ND and shoot again.

But then I usually have the rest of the family telling me to get a move on and keep up with the rest...

Matt

I'm getting that way too... Having followed that path so many times now it's not so much guess as know which one's the right one to pick!

Just trying to explain to Pete how to do the grad thing 'properly'!!! When I'm shooting on the 617 you have to get it right first time as 4 frames to a roll does not give quite as much bracketing room as a 2GB card!!!