How sensitive is your camera?

johnriley
Posted 20/11/2012 - 17:51 Link
Metering options change the way the camera measures the light level, so technique will have a bearing on this, especially with spot metering. The use of spot metering needs to be understood and it causes a bit of heartache sometimes for the unwary.
Best regards, John
gartmore
Posted 21/11/2012 - 08:11 Link
I'd imagine that there is light loss with the K/Q adapter much as there is with an extension tube.
Ken
“We must avoid however, snapping away, shooting quickly and without thought, overloading ourselves with unnecessary images that clutter our memory and diminish the clarity of the whole.” - Henri Cartier-Bresson -
Edited by gartmore: 21/11/2012 - 08:11
screwdriver
Posted 21/11/2012 - 11:58 Link
gartmore wrote:
I'd imagine that there is light loss with the K/Q adapter much as there is with an extension tube.
The light loss you get with the different viewing angles of the various focal lengths is taken care of by f numbers. The light loss you get from extension tubes is because your magnifying the view and only getting the light reflected off a smaller area, doesn't apply when your just adapting a lens so it can focus on infinity.

I used centre weighted metering in my tests, but I've also used spot metering with the same results, it definitely seems that some cameras can select a faster shutter speed when in aperture priority and the aperture and ISO is the same on all cameras, the same field of view, the same position for the camera.
Chris
petrochemist
Posted 21/11/2012 - 17:04 Link
gartmore wrote:
I'd imagine that there is light loss with the K/Q adapter much as there is with an extension tube.
Surely the adapter just makes up for the difference in flange distances for the cameras. Total distance from lens to sensor will be the same either on a K mount DSLR, or an adapted Q mount.
Mike
.
Pentax:K5ii, K7, K100D, DA18-55, DA10-17, DA55-300, DA50-200, F100-300, F50, DA35 AL, 4* M50, 2* M135, Helicoid extension, Tak 300 f4 (& 6 film bodies)
3rd Party: Bigmos (Sigma 150-500mm OS HSM),2* 28mm, 100mm macro, 28-200 zoom, 35-80 zoom, 80-200 zoom, 80-210 zoom, 300mm M42, 600 mirror, 1000-4000 scope, 50mm M42, enlarger lenses, Sony & micro 4/3 cameras with various PK mounts, Zenit E...
Far to many tele-converters, adapters, project parts & extension tubes etc.

.[size=11:].Flickr• WPF• Panoramio
sportyman531
Posted 21/11/2012 - 19:28 Link
When I was well into film photography it was said that you could try six different meters and get six different readings. The trick was to get used to your meter and interpret what it was telling you. I used a Gossen Lunasix III for many years.
Flickr
DA AL 35mm f2.4, K3,18-135 WR, DA 55-300, Pentax KX, K5 x 2, 18-50 50-200 kit lenses, Tamron 17-50 f2.8, Fuji X10, 2x Mamiya 1000s 2x 80mm f2.8, 150mm f3.5, 210mm f4, Yashica 124G TLR, 2x Yashica FX3 Super 2000, Tamron 28mm f2.8, 90mm SP f2.5, 135mm f2.5, Olympus 35RC, 2x Yashica FX2, Kodak Pocket Instamatic, Kodak Box Brownie
gartmore
Posted 21/11/2012 - 20:20 Link
petrochemist wrote:
gartmore wrote:
I'd imagine that there is light loss with the K/Q adapter much as there is with an extension tube.
Surely the adapter just makes up for the difference in flange distances for the cameras. Total distance from lens to sensor will be the same either on a K mount DSLR, or an adapted Q mount.
i think you're right
Ken
“We must avoid however, snapping away, shooting quickly and without thought, overloading ourselves with unnecessary images that clutter our memory and diminish the clarity of the whole.” - Henri Cartier-Bresson -
Algernon
Posted 21/11/2012 - 20:43 Link
Different makers have different factors of safety
(K values) for exposure. Canikon being Pro probably
use a smaller value than Pentax, although I seem to
remember that it wasn't very high. The idea is that
they aim for the highest percentage of success based
on their users level of competence/incompetence.
i.e. Can they tell the difference between freshly
fallen snow and a black horse


-
Half Man... Half Pentax ... Half Cucumber

Pentax K-1 + K-5 and some other stuff

Algi
Edited by Algernon: 21/11/2012 - 20:50
johnriley
Posted 21/11/2012 - 23:12 Link
The K value is the value alloocated to the meter, as mentioned previously usually 18% grey or 10% grey.
Best regards, John
dcweather
Posted 22/11/2012 - 00:01 Link
johnriley wrote:
Metering options change the way the camera measures the light level, so technique will have a bearing on this, especially with spot metering. The use of spot metering needs to be understood and it causes a bit of heartache sometimes for the unwary.
-------------------------
Could you expand a bit on this John as I use spot metering a lot for my wildlife shots.
Dave
johnriley
Posted 22/11/2012 - 00:17 Link
Spot metering, as the name implies, measures the light from just the very centre of the frame. A separate spot meter will measure from a 1 degree area, but the camera spot meter will be slightly wider than that.

It is ideal for measuring, say, the exposure of a spotlit subject, or measuring the darkest and brightest areas of a scene so that an average exposure can be worked out. This works best using manual exposure.

It doesn't lend itself so well to auto exposure techniques. Most of the trouble comes in where the spot meter ends up reading an inappropriate area of the image, so it's not the method for beginners.

Centre weighted metering offers a more easily reliable method, coupled with exposure compensation where necessary.

Hope that helps.
Best regards, John
screwdriver
Posted 22/11/2012 - 02:02 Link
Metering from the camera position is always prone to error no matter which metering mode you use which is why there is an easily accessible EV compensation control on most cameras.

All meters see the World in B&W, they measure the Luminance, but metering from the camera position make no allowance for the tone of the subject, how reflective they are.

All they do is take an average of the metered zone (zonal, spot or centre weighted)and then set the exposure to make that Luminance level reflected off the subject a mid grey, in film days mid grey was referred to as 18% grey as film responds to light in a logarithmic way, digital sensors are linear so mid grey should really be referred to as 50% grey, but the old 18% grey term seems to have stuck.

It's easy to show this happening with a piece of white and a piece of black card, place them in a well, evenly lit area and fill the frame with the white card and take a picture then take another picture of the black using any auto mode (Program, Aperture Priority, or Shutter Priority) both exposures will be the same - mid grey.

This gives us the old problem with scenes that are predominantly light or dark toned, snow scenes tend to be under-exposed to give us a mid grey snow, and the ubiquitous black cat on coal will be over-exposed and give a grey cat on grey coal, hence the need for EV compensation.
Chris
Edited by screwdriver: 22/11/2012 - 02:16
Smeggypants
Posted 22/11/2012 - 05:59 Link
johnriley wrote:


Centre weighted metering offers a more easily reliable method, coupled with exposure compensation where necessary.

Hope that helps.
I think given the decent dynamic range of modern sensors, John's advice above is sufficient. You can claw back up to 5 stops of under exposure on the K-5 so there's no problem in dialling in a not insignificant amount of negative exposure compensation to avoid clipping the sensor and getting whiteout regions in your image if you're in doubt.
[i]Bodies: 1x K-5IIs, 2x K-5, Sony TX-5, Nokia 808
Lenses: Pentax DA 10-17mm ED(IF) Fish Eye, Pentax DA 14mm f/2.8, Sigma 17-70mm f/2.8, Pentax-A 28mm f/2.8, Sigma 30mm F1.4 EX DC, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.2, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-FA 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.7, Pentax DA* 50-135mm f/2.8, Sigma 135-400mm APO DG, and more ..
Flash: AF-540FGZ, Vivitar 283
screwdriver
Posted 22/11/2012 - 13:21 Link
Shooting digital is a little like shooting fast reversal film, there's not a lot of headroom in the exposure, a 1/3rd of stop can make a visible difference to the amount of data collected.

Maximising image quality with digital has as much, if not more, to do with the the A/D converter and bit depth as it has with sensor dynamic range.

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/optimizing_exposure.shtml

Re-mapping Raw files in the Raw Converter may correct for an incorrect exposure, but it will not give you back any lost data caused by incorrect exposure, in extreme cases it will just give you a posterised image, blocks of colour with little detail.
Chris
Mannesty
Posted 22/11/2012 - 14:57 Link
When I read the title of this topic I thought to myself, I don't think I've made mine cry yet.
Peter E Smith - flickr Photostream
Edited by Mannesty: 22/11/2012 - 14:58
Smeggypants
Posted 22/11/2012 - 16:31 Link
screwdriver wrote:
Shooting digital is a little like shooting fast reversal film, there's not a lot of headroom in the exposure, a 1/3rd of stop can make a visible difference to the amount of data collected.

Maximising image quality with digital has as much, if not more, to do with the the A/D converter and bit depth as it has with sensor dynamic range.

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/optimizing_exposure.shtml

Re-mapping Raw files in the Raw Converter may correct for an incorrect exposure, but it will not give you back any lost data caused by incorrect exposure, in extreme cases it will just give you a posterised image, blocks of colour with little detail.
It's usual to talk of dynamic range of a camera as the dynamic range of the sensor/AD converter system as one unit.

In the early days Audio recording went through the equivalent of Expose To The Right [ ETTR} when AD convertors were still evolving. i.e advice was always record as hot as possible without clipping to maximise bits and keep digital quantisation noise to a minimum.

Nowadays digital audio is recorded leaving 2 or 3 bits of headroom by calibrating 0dB 9 optimal level ) as something between -12dBFS to -18dBFS on the digital scale.

More recently camera sensor/converters have evolved where there's no need to [i]always[i] implement meticulous ETTR and you can easily dial in up to a couple of stops ( 12dB ) of negative exposure compensation to avoid blowing highlights if the scene is very contrasty and well lit enough for a low ISO.


ETTR was certainly pertinent to exposing on digital cameras a few years ago, but were going to see dynamic ranges increasing in the coming years .... 16bits and even towards 24bits. By which time ETTR will be irrelevant.
[i]Bodies: 1x K-5IIs, 2x K-5, Sony TX-5, Nokia 808
Lenses: Pentax DA 10-17mm ED(IF) Fish Eye, Pentax DA 14mm f/2.8, Sigma 17-70mm f/2.8, Pentax-A 28mm f/2.8, Sigma 30mm F1.4 EX DC, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.2, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-FA 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.7, Pentax DA* 50-135mm f/2.8, Sigma 135-400mm APO DG, and more ..
Flash: AF-540FGZ, Vivitar 283

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