Horizon correction - what are the downsides?


WaypointCharlie

Link Posted 27/08/2015 - 11:15
Thanks RobL. Yes, that what I plan doing. For tripod mounting I find the electronic level display pretty useful, and it's more accurate than the viewfinder display (more steps). Just I've never enabled horizon correction before.
Last Edited by WaypointCharlie on 27/08/2015 - 11:15

McGregNi

Link Posted 27/08/2015 - 14:04
I also don't use the correction feature, but the LCD 'Attitude indicator ' style rolling horizon indicator is excellent I find. Always invaluable for tripod working as said by waypointcharlie above. For handheld viewfinder shooting then the illuminating bars in the viewfinder is helpful too ... Actually, I must admit that it is automatically referred to and made use of for most of my shots.
My Guides to the Pentax Digital Camera Flash Lighting System : Download here from the PentaxForums Homepage Article .... link
Pentax K7 with BG-4 Grip / Samyang 14mm f2.8 ED AS IF UMC / DA18-55mm f3.5-5.6 AL WR / SMC A28mm f2.8 / D FA 28-105mm / SMC F35-70 f3.5-4.5 / SMC A50mm f1.7 / Tamron AF70-300mm f4-5.6 Di LD macro / SMC M75-150mm f4.0 / Tamron Adaptall (CT-135) 135mm f2.8 / Asahi Takumar-A 2X tele-converter / Pentax AF-540FGZ (I & II) Flashes / Cactus RF60/X Flashes & V6/V6II Transceiver

davidstorm

Link Posted 27/08/2015 - 21:57
If you are careful and methodical about setting the shot up, you are using a tripod and you check before shooting, I can't see any reason why the horizon correction would be beneficial. You could also use live view, surely this will enable an accurate assessment of whether or not the shot is level? I'm with John Riley on this one, you need to be disciplined and confident enough to not need your horizon correction. What would you do if the camera didn't have this feature?

Regards
David
My Website http://imagesbydavidstorm.foliopic.com

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richandfleur

Link Posted 27/08/2015 - 22:40
Have to laugh a little bit about this, it's a feature that's added, but of course you don't have to use it.
Much like HDR, or the intervalometer, or the image filters, or the shadow boost and other lens corrections, and shake reduction etc etc.

I often hear people lamenting having video on their camera, but once again, it's a feature that's there, but you simply don't have to use it. It doesn't impact negatively on your stills image, so it's not hurting anyone to have it there.

In this case, go out and try it. Take a few with it enabled and a few without, and see what you like. I've always left it off as I'm happy to make that final adjustment in post, and I'm always a bit concerned that the camera will muck with my composition because it thinks it should be different. Being a DSLR you're not seeing exactly what the sensor is going to record when looking through the optical viewfinder, and that's never sat right with me.

For a straight out of camera competition, you'd want all the help you can get I'd expect, so I'd have on lens correction and autolevel IF you are taking a photo of something with a horizon, to ensure it's level AND straight too.

McGregNi

Link Posted 28/08/2015 - 06:18
Personally I don't place great value on this 'get it right in camera' thing .... OK for a competitive challenge and fun, but not very productive for serious photography.

The fact is that time spent in the field on such fineries is time wasted ... It's inefficient at the point that you just need image recordings. Especially in changing light when each capture may be creatively different it's more important to keep recording and ensuring that technically the sensor has got the highest quality set of data possible. Time spent on perfecting a horizon does not aid that process at all.

I find that the electronic level indicators are a quick way to aid judgement. But ultimately a better technique to develop, surely, is a slightly wider framing beyond your intended final image borders, to enable good accurate levelling and cropping on a computer, at a time when that IS an efficient use of resources ....?
My Guides to the Pentax Digital Camera Flash Lighting System : Download here from the PentaxForums Homepage Article .... link
Pentax K7 with BG-4 Grip / Samyang 14mm f2.8 ED AS IF UMC / DA18-55mm f3.5-5.6 AL WR / SMC A28mm f2.8 / D FA 28-105mm / SMC F35-70 f3.5-4.5 / SMC A50mm f1.7 / Tamron AF70-300mm f4-5.6 Di LD macro / SMC M75-150mm f4.0 / Tamron Adaptall (CT-135) 135mm f2.8 / Asahi Takumar-A 2X tele-converter / Pentax AF-540FGZ (I & II) Flashes / Cactus RF60/X Flashes & V6/V6II Transceiver
Last Edited by McGregNi on 28/08/2015 - 06:19

johnriley

Link Posted 28/08/2015 - 08:46
The proof of the pudding Nigel is of course in the results.

I would contend that if many photographers took a film camera with a 36 exposure colour slide film we would be astonished at how sloppy our approach can be. Suddenly exposure would have to spot on, we would have to examine the corners of the frame we were shooting to avoid unwanted details cropping in, we would even have to level our horizons. That latter point is not difficult to achieve by eye.

My further contention is that having sharpened up our technique and approach, we would be better photographers for the exercise. I would encourage any photographer to try it and see how it makes a difference.
Best regards, John

McGregNi

Link Posted 28/08/2015 - 09:09
That is to imply that photography and photographers were better in the film days, because the process, its risks and costs, made us more careful at the capture stage. It also implies that many use digital processing to correct for and make up for failings at the capture point ....

I haven't found that myself .... the digital process has opened up possibilities, enhanced learning and creativity that 35mm never did. And its not just because of the 'instant feedback' factor .... although I admit that for exposure control the LCD/histogram is a wonderful thing. The truth is I find, that in many scenarios I can't even see my photo properly on the LCD after taking it (but I can see the histogram clearly). So the viewfinder is still king!

The key for me is the way that the processing stage follows on from the capture stage, as an extension and enhancement of the capture .... that is its real power. Before, it wasn't so much that the capture was taken more carefully ... it was just that the shooting part was the ONLY part! That was what you got (for those of us relying on printing services). So there was no more to it after that.

With digital processing we get the extension and enhancement to the process that adds so much more to it. Not to correct mistakes at capture, but to add value and bring all that extra creativity and quality to the final result !
My Guides to the Pentax Digital Camera Flash Lighting System : Download here from the PentaxForums Homepage Article .... link
Pentax K7 with BG-4 Grip / Samyang 14mm f2.8 ED AS IF UMC / DA18-55mm f3.5-5.6 AL WR / SMC A28mm f2.8 / D FA 28-105mm / SMC F35-70 f3.5-4.5 / SMC A50mm f1.7 / Tamron AF70-300mm f4-5.6 Di LD macro / SMC M75-150mm f4.0 / Tamron Adaptall (CT-135) 135mm f2.8 / Asahi Takumar-A 2X tele-converter / Pentax AF-540FGZ (I & II) Flashes / Cactus RF60/X Flashes & V6/V6II Transceiver

johnriley

Link Posted 28/08/2015 - 09:47
I'm sure you're right Nigel, in fact I know you're right, inasmuch as if we were shooting negative film (usually black and white) then the only thing to do was have our own darkroom, to keep full control over the processing. The equivalent now is to use the computer to complete that process. Photoshop is echoing the techniques used in the darkroom, and the nomenclature is the same.

The slide film exercise is equally valid for film photographers as it is for digital photographers. A slide film is a WYSIWYG process and it makes us better at the exposure stage. Whether in the darkroom or in front of the PC, this makes our images easier and quicker to process.
Best regards, John

RobL

Link Posted 28/08/2015 - 10:15
McGregNi wrote:
Personally I don't place great value on this 'get it right in camera' thing .... OK for a competitive challenge and fun, but not very productive for serious photography.

The fact is that time spent in the field on such fineries is time wasted ... It's inefficient at the point that you just need image recordings. Especially in changing light when each capture may be creatively different it's more important to keep recording and ensuring that technically the sensor has got the highest quality set of data possible. Time spent on perfecting a horizon does not aid that process at all.

I find that the electronic level indicators are a quick way to aid judgement. But ultimately a better technique to develop, surely, is a slightly wider framing beyond your intended final image borders, to enable good accurate levelling and cropping on a computer, at a time when that IS an efficient use of resources ....?

I am going to disagree with you here. Whilst I accept some editing of a RAW file in software is necessary in my view it is better if kept to a minimum; far better to compose the image as close to what you want it to be on exposure rather than just blast away thinking I'll fix it later! After all any time saved in the field is more time spent tinkering on the computer so no real benefit, and this is even more so when combining exposures in HDR, focus stacking or whatever.

It also just occurred to me that the editing could be done by someone else with more expertise perhaps so that wouldn't be valid for a competition.
Last Edited by RobL on 28/08/2015 - 10:28

McGregNi

Link Posted 28/08/2015 - 10:26
Certainly I agree that, (where its an efficient use of time), being 'better at the exposure stage' is a worthwhile goal, and if it cuts down computer time later that's a bonus. I think though when presented with a great scene and maybe diminishing light, then we have to weigh the priorities .... I would say that horizon perfecting was not one at that time,
My Guides to the Pentax Digital Camera Flash Lighting System : Download here from the PentaxForums Homepage Article .... link
Pentax K7 with BG-4 Grip / Samyang 14mm f2.8 ED AS IF UMC / DA18-55mm f3.5-5.6 AL WR / SMC A28mm f2.8 / D FA 28-105mm / SMC F35-70 f3.5-4.5 / SMC A50mm f1.7 / Tamron AF70-300mm f4-5.6 Di LD macro / SMC M75-150mm f4.0 / Tamron Adaptall (CT-135) 135mm f2.8 / Asahi Takumar-A 2X tele-converter / Pentax AF-540FGZ (I & II) Flashes / Cactus RF60/X Flashes & V6/V6II Transceiver

wvbarnes

Link Posted 28/08/2015 - 10:29
Phew! I'm glad my photography isn't too serious. 'Seriously' though we'll have to continue to have a wide spectrum of opinion on here as for many of us on here this hobby is meant to be a fun hobby even if we want it to be one where we take good enjoyable photographs with one or two worth framing. I for one will try to get as much right in camera in Crete next week, then go for a nice relaxing walk/swim/beer/meal/read

SteveLedger

Link Posted 28/08/2015 - 10:43
There will always be the purists (or are they Luddites?)
Leave them alone I say - because that's where they'll end up - alone.

I prefer to focus on what's important in [my] photography, the 'result' because in the end it's all that really matters to me. In this context I don't really care what they did in the old days with film because I live in the 21st century and use modern computerised digital light capturing devices which collects the RAW materials for my development pleasure.
If I were to enter an OOC competition, perhaps it would make more sense to pick up a film camera because that's where it mattered more than it does today.
My 2c

McGregNi

Link Posted 28/08/2015 - 10:43
Well there's no excuse then Bill, not to take a laptop along to the restaurant or bar and get cracking with some serious editing while you eat and drink.... That would be a most efficient use of time, surely ....:

If it gets too late in the night though, you might regret it if you had not utilised your electronic horizon levelling aids ....
My Guides to the Pentax Digital Camera Flash Lighting System : Download here from the PentaxForums Homepage Article .... link
Pentax K7 with BG-4 Grip / Samyang 14mm f2.8 ED AS IF UMC / DA18-55mm f3.5-5.6 AL WR / SMC A28mm f2.8 / D FA 28-105mm / SMC F35-70 f3.5-4.5 / SMC A50mm f1.7 / Tamron AF70-300mm f4-5.6 Di LD macro / SMC M75-150mm f4.0 / Tamron Adaptall (CT-135) 135mm f2.8 / Asahi Takumar-A 2X tele-converter / Pentax AF-540FGZ (I & II) Flashes / Cactus RF60/X Flashes & V6/V6II Transceiver
Last Edited by McGregNi on 28/08/2015 - 11:01

McGregNi

Link Posted 28/08/2015 - 10:57
I agree again (this is madness!) with you Steve. .... Really, how can there be any such thing as a pure 'out of camera' image from a digital camera? Going back to film and all using the same film stock would be the only way to level the playing field for any sort of competition.

Your OOC jpeg has been processed every bit as much, probably more actually, than the same image from a RAW file subtlety worked on with a computer. Add in other sophistications like horizon correction, shake reduction, distortion corrections, DR enhancements etc., and it's nothing like a level playing field ... In fact, it probably all gives Pentax DSLR users a good advantage ... Or do all these things have to be switched off for it to count ....?
My Guides to the Pentax Digital Camera Flash Lighting System : Download here from the PentaxForums Homepage Article .... link
Pentax K7 with BG-4 Grip / Samyang 14mm f2.8 ED AS IF UMC / DA18-55mm f3.5-5.6 AL WR / SMC A28mm f2.8 / D FA 28-105mm / SMC F35-70 f3.5-4.5 / SMC A50mm f1.7 / Tamron AF70-300mm f4-5.6 Di LD macro / SMC M75-150mm f4.0 / Tamron Adaptall (CT-135) 135mm f2.8 / Asahi Takumar-A 2X tele-converter / Pentax AF-540FGZ (I & II) Flashes / Cactus RF60/X Flashes & V6/V6II Transceiver
Last Edited by McGregNi on 28/08/2015 - 10:58

WaypointCharlie

Link Posted 28/08/2015 - 11:15
Little did I envisage my original post would cause quite so much discussion!

I've just taken a few shots of a still life on the tripod with a remote release with horizon correction enabled. I noticed slight differenecs in the amount of correction applied between shots. This means combining shots (as I wanted to do) requires a bit of minor post process alignment. I wonder if the camera maintains a constant correction bewteen shots when using auto exposure bracketing.

Already my feeling is to disable the horizon correction, unless taking a single shot of the sea for a SOOTC competition!
Last Edited by WaypointCharlie on 28/08/2015 - 11:43
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