focus adjustment k10d

Thanks. Excellent link.

G

Just out of interest, other than getting into Debug mode without using an undocumented Russian program where all the buttons are in Russian, why would you want to regress the firmware?

Because you can't enable the debug mode in anything but 1.10.
All versions above 1.10 require a USB connection to enable debug mode. v1.10 had the complicated-keypress-sequence to get there, so you could do it without a PC.

TBH, it's not difficult either way, and not a big problem. Focus adjustment took all of 10 minutes.

The fact that this became so widespread, and so necessary, it's little wonder that the K20D has it as part of the "friendly" menu system

Matt

I wouldn't, except briefly to adjust the focus setting. As Matt says, it's the only way to do it. Once done, it's back to 1.30.

G

Ah. Understood.

I can understand any reluctance to use the Russian Program to achieve the same thing while still with 1.30.

I must admit, it was not without concern that I downloaded and ran the Russian Program - I installed it first in a Virtual PC, virus-checked it and had a poke about with its buttons, documented as far as I could find.

This gave me the confidence to try getting into the Debug Menu with my K10D, although I didn't change anything.

I felt on balance, that it was less of a faff to use the Russian Program, than go to all the trouble of hacking the 1.1 firmware to make it look like 1.3, installing it, and then reinstalling the real 1.3.

I have never been to happy with the results I was getting from my K10D with large apertures thinking it was me at fault.

However decided to see if the focus was out and indeed it was by 4" front focusing!

I used the Focus chart from this link: http://focustestchart.com/chart.html

The results were easy to see the focus was forward of what it should have been. (I used my 50mm Prime to test - tested on AV auto focus center at f/2, f/4, f/8 and f11)

Installing and access the Debug menu was very easy. As was reinstalling 1.30.

And the instructions from this link: http://www.rarwebworks.com/Photography/Pentax.htm to make the firmware changes required to access the Debug menus.

Rather annoying having to do this with a new camera and researching this I found that a large percentage of Pentax K10D owners have had the same issue. Some Quality assurance on Pentax part should have resolved these before units were shipped out.

I will complete some tests this weekend to see if my images have improved. If the adjustments have not worked I will again consider switching to another manufacturer.

Regards,

Gary.

Before you do that Gary bear this in mind; ALL the other manufacturers (Nikon, Canon, Sony, Olympus, Panasonic, Leica, Fuji, Sigma) have exactly the same problem with around the same level of frequency. As far as I know, Pentax/Samsung is one of the very few where the end user can make their own adjustments as opposed to sending the camera back to the factory, waiting a month, then hoping they may (or may not) have actually got it right.

There are many valid reasons for swapping systems but I really don't think this could ever be considered one of them...

I do find this whole thing very puzzling.

Does anyone know why, if it's so easy to adjust, so many cameras arrive at the shop adjusted wrong? Is it simply sloppy QC, or is there a more subtle reason for it?

Secondly, why is it different for different lenses?

And if it is so common, why is it that the K20 is the first affordable model that lets the user adjust it officially?

. . . and why haven't Pentax issued a firmware update for the K10D to allow this adjustment more easily, as per the K20D ?

It would probably take them less than 1 hour to make the change, and post it on the web. Result; Happier Pentax users.

Or are they hoping that every K10D owner will upgrade to 'fix' the problem?

Canon and Nikon have options to allow user adjustments for AF.

Pentax withdrew these options and removed the 1.10 firmware debug features for the K10D. The only official way yo make changes is to send your K10D and all your lenses to Pentax to make adjustments. Turn around is 28 days! And if your lucky you may get the AF problem fixed else you have to send it all back again!

The K20D has user options to change and save AF for body and 20 lens.

My K10D is less then a year old, why should I have to purchase a K20D to get the functions required to operate the camera correctly. Might as well jump ship

If it's a show stopper for you, and you can afford to jump, and there aren't any different show stoppers for you with another brand, it may well be best for you.

Only you can say, really.

Don't forget that the "Debug" menu is not for focus adjustment alone - there's a pile of stuff in there that, when wrongly used, could completely stop your camera from working!

I'm not entirely sure how many other brands have user-adjustable focus. The 1Ds has, I'm sure. TBH, adjusting the focus with either the firmware or the USB tool is no big bother. I adjusted the K10D "by the book", then found it wasn't 100% right for portraiture at f/1.4, so I tweaked it slightly back and now it's absolutely bang on - for all my lenses (which are all Pentax, BTW).

As Chris says, though - only you can say whether jumping ship is worth it (unless that was a joke! !)

Do you know why it's different for different lenses, Matt?

With Nikon it's only the D300 / D700 / D3, with Canon only the 1Ds3 / 1D mk3 - all of which are more expensive than a K20D and considerably dearer than a K10D. That's a lot of money to spend just to prove a point (and possibly find your new ship that you've just hopped on board having exactly the same problem) but it's your money to burn at the end of the day...

As for why this problem exists I do have a theory (disclaimer: I've worked in manufacturing but not for cameras so this is pure supposition on my part, albeit slightly educated supposition):

The tolerances required to set up a sensor are incredibly tight - we're not talking whole millimetres here, rather microns. These sorts of tolerances aren't achieveable by human hands, hence they'll be implemented by machines on the production line. Assembly line robots require regular calibration checks and it's not outside the realms of possibility that between these checks small variances will occur - not enough to be seen by the naked eye but enough to throw a sensor into BF/FF territory. In order to check every camera by hand would involve a huge number of man-hours and would add disproportionately to the cost of each individual unit sold, hence the machines are trusted to have done their jobs properly (as long as random tested samples are judged to fall within "acceptable" operating standards - that's acceptable to the manufacturer rather than the end user of course!).

A large percentage of users will never notice any FF/BF problems because they'll never progress beyond their kit lenses, and the comparatively small maximum apertures will mask a multitude of sins. The sensors in digicams and phones are even more tolerant of mis-adjustment as their tiny sizes ensure that even fast(ish) f2.8 lenses have a sufficiently large depth-of-field to cover any manufacturing deficiancy. Hence we're left at a stage where only those using fast lenses on APS-C and larger sensors are able to see that there's a problem somewhere.

Despite the impression you may get from reading Internet forums such as this one, these sort of users (fast lens / high expectation) actually represent the minority of DSLR owners, the manufacturers are well aware of this and probably figured out a long time ago that it's more cost efficient to deal with the small number of complainers on an individual basis after the sale is made, than it is to implement a whole new level of QC at the factory to deal with a problem that the majority of customers will never face. Simple economics there!

So why is it only now that cameras are starting to appear that allow the user to change things for him/herself? And why is it hidden on the K10D - only accessible by a hack?

I think the answer to the first part is due largely to (again) forums like this one. We live in an age where people can communicate with strangers on the other side of the world and compare notes and experiences on products in an unprecedented manner. In days of yore problems like this may have been well known to manufacturers but they would rarely (if ever) have admitted to them outside of their own factory gates. Now the evidence is laid bare for the world to see they are having to come to terms with these issues and be seen to be doing something about them. Much kudos is due to Pentax/Samsung for being among the first to take their heads out of the sand and hold their hands up to a potential problem! Who fancies betting Sony users are still having to send their stuff back to the factory 10 years from now..?

As for the K10D question, I think that camera was never intended to have its adjustment menu laid bare to anyone except Pentax technicians as it belonged to the previous school of thought (If we don't admit to having a problem then we don't have a problem). The fact is, Pentax obviously listened to the concerns of users and reacted by introducing the solution up-front in the K20D, this may be of little consolation to owners of earlier cameras but it bodes well for the future of the brand as it proves it to be responsive. Will the K10D ever get an "official" firmware with focus adjustment included? I highly doubt it; Pentax no longer make the camera so why spend so much as a single penny on further R&D for it? To line the pockets of those selling their old cameras on eBay (to folks who might otherwise have bought shiny new K20D's)? Of course not! That's the first step down a path that eventually leads to financial ruin - Hoya's not that stupid.

I did have a BF problem with my K10D, I used the hacked v1.10 of the firmware to cure it, it was easy and I'm happy with the results. I do not expect "perfection" from a DSLR out of the factory because that's simply unrealistic. I do expect a product that's at least 99.9% sorted though and I'm delighted to say that's exactly what Pentax provided me with - I'm under absolutely no delusions that any other manufacturer would have done any better (and from reading C/N forums I suspect the "big two" would have been considerably worse).

Just my $0.02 anyway.